Is ISO 9001 Cresting? Is a rebellion in the works?

[Mike S.]

FWIW, as some anecdotal evidence supporting Energy's claim: We sell about 70% to commercial telecoms, 20% to commercial aircraft subs, and 10% to US military subs. The only customers who have insisted on at least ISO 9001 compliance are two European customers. At the time of the demand, one was a long-time happy customer and we had a 100% quality rating, but they told us they had to drop us if we did not do ISO 9001. The other one would not talk to us without it, regardless of our reputation in the industry. Not proof, but interesting.

Mike S.

 

[energy]

yesiree

Mike S. said:

FWIW, as some anecdotal evidence supporting Energy's claim: We sell about 70% to commercial telecoms, 20% to commercial aircraft subs, and 10% to US military subs. The only customers who have insisted on at least ISO 9001 compliance are two European customers. At the time of the demand, one was a long-time happy customer and we had a 100% quality rating, but they told us they had to drop us if we did not do ISO 9001. The other one would not talk to us without it, regardless of our reputation in the industry. Not proof, but interesting.

Mike S.

Mike S.,

Really not that interesting, is it? Paul says in reference to my post,"it's a plot". I say that it is a scheme crafted by those that think it's something else. Just a way to even the playing field. But, the ostrich never sees anything but the darkness of the little hole that they stick their head in. It is a weapon, yes I'm expecting serious rebuttal, to keep Quality product out of the their market place lest you realize that the word "Quality " really is more than a buzz word. After all, if there is only one chicken in the market place to choose from, it really looks mighty good. In advance, no offense intended.

 

[M Greenaway]

Hang on one darn minute

Hey sorry I missed the fight guys.

Eh ah well sorry, perhaps energy is right in that many US companies see ISO9001 being used as a trade barrier for selling to the EU.

But it wasnt (I dont think) set up purely as a barrier to free trade. I would hope that the big knobs in Brussells actually thought it a good idea as it would improve the quality of imported products.

Yes they were sadly very very wrong - but they did try.

But hey didnt ISO9001 derive from some American Navy person - so its all your own fault anyway

 

[Michael T]

ISO to improve quality?

M Greenaway said:
But it wasnt (I dont think) set up purely as a barrier to free trade. I would hope that the big knobs in Brussells actually thought it a good idea as it would improve the quality of imported products.

Yes they were sadly very very wrong - but they did try.

But hey didnt ISO9001 derive from some American Navy person - so its all your own fault anyway

Hold the phone folks... If I remember my history lessons, ISO was designed to level the playing field in Europe between countries with different standards. Sorta like getting them all reading from the same sheet music... (pardon all the metaphors). I don't remember it mentioned anywhere that ISO was designed to improve quality. Am I remembering this correctly?

The use of ISO as a trade barrier just happened to be an unexpected dividend(?) of the whole process. Companies discovered that they could use ISO as part of the vendor selection criteria and exclude those with whom they didn't want to do business, with no legal consequences.

Cheers!!

 

[energy]

Re: Hang on one darn minute

M Greenaway said:

But it wasnt (I dont think) set up purely as a barrier to free trade. I would hope that the big knobs in Brussells actually thought it a good idea as it would improve the quality of imported products.

M.,

I agree it was not intended to be used in that manner. But, some people even use a shovel as a weapon. Clearly not designed to brain someone. I just get a little put out when I see "free" trade. It certainly isn't free, is it? On with the show!

 

[Paul Simpson]

Late again!

I obviously didn't make myself clear in my last posting ….

"As for your not caring about the poll about "Cresting", you sure have a lot to say. Sorry if you were offended by my remarks. We have a saying over here..."If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

1. I think the number of posts I have made since I rejoined the cove is an indication that I only say something when I have something to say. In this case I thought there was something to add to correct the impression that this is a European plot. BS 5750 was developed in the U.K. and was then adopted by the European standards body AND the International standards body, ISO which the US was a subscriber to (at least when I last checked).

The subject of trading with Europe and their requirement for ISO 9000 registration, some large organisations may have applied this to their purchasing requirements but it is an international standard and, as with any free market you can choose to join or not, it is the same as UL product approval or FDA approval.

2. My point about not caring as to whether the takeup of ISO registration is cresting was covered in my original post, what matters to me is the effectiveness of the systems I help to implement and how well they solve the organization's problems who pay me good money to assist them. If it then meets ISO, QS, ISO / TS or whatever then so much the better for them.

As for the research Energy has done into the origins and motivation for BS 5750 and ISO 9000, some facts exist on the web but you have to be careful as to their use and interpretation. I have no problem with people disagreeing with my opinions in these fora but the heat in this particular kitchen will have to be a lot hotter before I feel the need to get out.

So let's understand - ISO is World Wide, it is based in Geneva, which is the capital of Switzerland - not a member of the European Union.

 

[energy]

Great Ghost

Jim,

I almost went cross eyed reading that one. I really don't care where the bee's nest ended up. It's still there.

Paul,

First, I respect your posts and never intended to suggest that you leave the kitchen. Just a figure of speech. Rejoin the cove? Geez, I, for one am honored.
As for gathering facts off the internet and using them to any particular advantage based upon loose interpretaion to suit the purpose, I regard your posts as just that. Internet wisdom. Chew it, swallow it or spit it out. Remember what we do here. Your posts have no more credence than Jim's. Martin's or mine! Keep your eye on the ball and not just yours.

 

[James Gutherson]

Sorry but this really irks me.

If you want to talk barriers to free trade, how about the US's recent tariff's on imported steel, or the farm bill subsidies going through senate at the moment! Both in direct contrivention of the US's WTO free trade obligations.

 

[energy]

Irks me too

James,

No one has clean hands on this. I speak my mind, you speak yours! Go for it. No argument here.

 

[James Gutherson]

Understood