Is ISO10011 Dead?


Quite Involved in Discussions
Does ISO10011 Dead? What are the transition changes from ISO10011 to ISO19011? Does it mean that the standard for ISO10011 not valid anymore? Please comment. What is 19011 actually?
Thanks in advance,


Jim Biz

10011 is auditing guidlines:

Do a search of this site - enter either
19011 AND/OR 10011 you will find 10 discussions concerning the issue.

As I recall there were very informative discussions back in January on the very subjects



Quite Involved in Discussions
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the immediate reply.
However, with the current situation that some companies have the desire to certify against the ISO9000:2000, I understand that ISO10011 was still in effect,what if 19011 will be released by three months from now and as a company attending a training on IQA Seminar the Transition Course that used ISO10011, Are we going to have to attend the 19011 Auditing Course in compliance with the ISO9000:2000? Is ISO19011 based from ISO9000:2000? PLease comment.
Thanks in advance,


Where can I purchase the ISO 10011 or the ISO 19011 when it comes out?

[This message has been edited by mooser (edited 11 July 2001).]


Fully vaccinated are you?
From the ISO ListServe:
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:28:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Internal Audit Transition /George/Salinger

From: Salinger

> From: BOB
> Does anyone have any information regarding International Standard ISO/DIS
> 19011: Guidelines for Quality and/or Environmental Management Systems
> Auditing? That is, has it been finalized? If it hasn't, any ideas when it
> is expected to be?
> I'm interested in this because as we transition to ISO 9000:2000, our audit
> program must evolve from a programmatic/performance based system to one of
> auditing processes. I could use some guidance for this transition/upgrade
> and I thought perhaps this guidance document could help by providing me with
> something to base my auditor training and the implementation of this new
> (for me) auditing technique on. Will this guideline even address my needs?"

ISO/DIS 19011 (draft international standard) has not yet been voted on. There is a real debate as to whether the guidance for internal auditors (competence thereof) is appropriate. The U.S.TAG (Technical Advisory Group) to ISO Committee 176 is negative on this DIS as it stands today. The DIS provides detailed information for third-party auditors but the requirements for internal auditors are not very well discussed. I doubt that this Standard will be of more help for training your internal auditors than 10011 is. There are books and articles on "process" auditing which may be helpful in supplementing the training on general QMS auditing techniques. You can check the ASQ website ( ) for listings of various Quality Press publications.



From: Dennis Arter

The USA team of quality and environmental auditors has significant problems with the proposed ISO standard on management systems auditing, ISO 19011. They have prepared a position paper to accompany the suggested negative vote on this document. If you wish, you may download the position paper (but not the draft standard) from the QAD web site:
*** Dead link removed ***

If you have comments on this issue, please provide them to Baskar Kotte, our ASQ/QAD standards representative.

Please note that we only posted the USA analysis of the document and not the draft standard itself. For that, you must belong to one of your national standards committees. I will prepare a more in-depth response to the question in a few days.

Dennis Arter
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