Is it a Finding if all Internal Auditors are from the Quality Department?

SGquality

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
In my organization, we have a list of Internal Auditors and all are from different roles in the Quality Department. I feel this is not good. Is this acceptable and would it be a finding in the ISO Certification audit ?
 
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dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

In my organization, we have a list of Internal Auditors and all are from different roles in the Quality Department. I feel this is not good. Is this acceptable and would it be a finding in the ISO Certification audit ?

Short answer NO!

The only requirement is:

"The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work."

... and the logic of that is - can you imagine that their own area never receives an NCR and they are so perfect....:sarcasm:

Hope this helps
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#3
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

Short answer NO!

The only requirement is:

"The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work."

... and the logic of that is - can you imagine that their own area never receives an NCR and they are so perfect....:sarcasm:

Hope this helps
Can you imagine if they are so honest to actually identify NC's

Anyway the question is about to become moot because the restriction is being done away with in the 2015 revision
 

QAengineer13

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

In addition to dsanabria comments, 820.22 states that " Quality audits shall be conducted by individuals who do not have direct responsibility for the matters being audited" with that being said ensure that the 820.25 Personnel training certificates/ experience pertaining to them being trained as Internal auditor is maintained in their training files.
 
#5
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

In my organization, we have a list of Internal Auditors and all are from different roles in the Quality Department. I feel this is not good. Is this acceptable and would it be a finding in the ISO Certification audit ?
Why would it be "not good"? What you should be seeking is objective, impartial, competent auditors, not worrying about what department they're from...

It could be, for example, that you don't have ANY candidates in QA who fit the bill!:popcorn:
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

In addition to dsanabria comments, 820.22 states that " Quality audits shall be conducted by individuals who do not have direct responsibility for the matters being audited" with that being said ensure that the 820.25 Personnel training certificates/ experience pertaining to them being trained as Internal auditor is maintained in their training files.
This is true for FDA and medical devices, but keep in mind that the OP has posted in the ISO 19011 forum, and thus the requirements may be applied somewhat differently (e.g. demonstrating competency of auditors vs. having training records).

Brian :rolleyes:
 
A

arkyhog

#7
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

I like to select accountants for new internal auditor candidates they are sticklers for compliance and they tend to dig real deep.
 
#8
Re: Is it a finding if all Internal Auditors are from Quality ?

I like to select accountants for new internal auditor candidates they are sticklers for compliance and they tend to dig real deep.
Welcome. Do you think an accountant would be good to audit a welding process and its controls, in that case? Or a jet engine design process?
 
A

arkyhog

#9
Absolutely! Taking some one that is not a subject matter expert or thinks they are one; is the best way I have found for asking questions. You essentially you could get a 5-why to a simple audit question if the auditor has no prior subject matter experience. The only pre requisite is the subject matter material to review. The less you know the more questions you will ask if you take what you?re doing serious. I have yet to meet many accountants that joke around the water cooler most if the day. ;)
 
#10
Absolutely! Taking some one that is not a subject matter expert or thinks they are one; is the best way I have found for asking questions. You essentially you could get a 5-why to a simple audit question if the auditor has no prior subject matter experience. The only pre requisite is the subject matter material to review. The less you know the more questions you will ask if you take what you?re doing serious. I have yet to meet many accountants that joke around the water cooler most if the day. ;)
Interesting reply. So, based on this, why do you think being a Lead Auditor requires many years of experience, in related industries and passing an accredited course with an exam, if it's simply a case of asking questions?
 
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