Is it OK if Registrar and Internal Auditing "Contractor" are the same company?

P

Pink Pearl

#1
Can you help me understand. . .
Would love some guidance from the experts on this. There is, in this case AS9100, but could be other standards as well, a registrar company who uses "contractors." They are utilized for both certification AND internal quality auditing services. So, this registrar certified a company and also has a contract with the same company to come in to conduct their periodic internal quality audits. When questioned, they claim that since they are "contractors" they are within any constraints ISO has established. I mean, I wouldn't want the same company that comes in for surveillance audits to also be the one doing IQAs. It's not the same person doing both services, just the same registrar company. I'm not an expert on this, but it just doesn't sound right to me. It could just be me and is actually a common, acceptable practice.

Your thoughts?
 
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DannyK

Trusted Information Resource
#2
From my past experience with some registrars, if the auditor was a consultant,the auditor has to wait 2 years before working as an auditor for the registrar at the company that he consulted with.
 

Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#3
Can you help me understand. . .
Would love some guidance from the experts on this. There is, in this case AS9100, but could be other standards as well, a registrar company who uses "contractors." They are utilized for both certification AND internal quality auditing services. So, this registrar certified a company and also has a contract with the same company to come in to conduct their periodic internal quality audits. When questioned, they claim that since they are "contractors" they are within any constraints ISO has established. I mean, I wouldn't want the same company that comes in for surveillance audits to also be the one doing IQAs. It's not the same person doing both services, just the same registrar company. I'm not an expert on this, but it just doesn't sound right to me. It could just be me and is actually a common, acceptable practice.

Your thoughts?
This is not a matter of opinion. What you described above is a crass violation of ISO 17021, paragraph 5.2.6, which CLEARLY states
The certification body and any part of the same legal entity shall not offer or provide internal audits to its certified clients. The certification body shall not certify a management system on which it provided internal audits within two years following the end of the internal audits.
It could not be clearer. If exposed to an Accreditation Body, the CB would have to cease and desist from the practice and implement correction and corrective action.
 
T

tomvehoski

#5
Some may run parallel companies. I know Perry Johnson has Perry Johnson Registrar and Perry Johnson Consulting. They are different legal entities which gets them around the requirements noted above. Not sure if they share personnel though. It is also common in the accounting field. I worked for a CPA consulting firm, but we also had a "separate" audit firm. Same building, same partners (iirc), but two different legal entities so it was all good as far as the IRS was concerned.

Are you sure they contracts are really with the same company? It could just be they sound similar.
 
#7
Interesting to note that a post in this thread has vanished.....:mg:
Indeed, it did Sidney - I didn't have a copy of the ISO/IEC 17025 requirements in front of me, so some of the details weren't quoted from that, just my recollection. Your post clarified it for me and the OP. Thanks!
 
M

mjones2

#9
Its starting to be a trend. Registrars are seeing that the market is saturated, and looking for more markets.

going into the internal audit fields has many advantages to the registrar. This activity isn't audited by the RAB and there is less overhead. But the registrars who perform internal audits will have to give up their Registration work with the same company.:)

It is a conflict of interest to do both internal audits and registration audits. But the registrars will gladly give up the registration side if the internal audit side makes them more money.
 
T

tomvehoski

#10
How could the internal audit side possibly generate more income? Since the requirements for an internal auditor are so lax, pretty much any consultant can provide the service. The supply of "qualified" internal auditors/companies is many times larger than the supply of "accredited" registration auditors/registrars, so the basic laws of supply and demand indicate that they should be able to command more $/hour for registration audits.
 
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