Is it OK to do a Gage R&R With A CMM?

C

carriek

#1
I was auditing a plant recently and was shock to find that the was doing their gage R&R's with their cmm. I did not question it at the time because i was not real familar with the msa guidelines but would not a gage R&R require actually people doing the trial on the gage (this was a go/nogo fixture.) Can someone please help me out on this? thanks
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
B

BRoyal

#2
If you are not familiar with gage R&R and measurement system analysis, these items can be a little confusing.

Take the time to read through the MSA manual and ask questions of you fellow auditors. You company should also be able to provide some training and guidance on this.

Also, this forum can provide a wealth of information; it's pretty easy to do a search.

I suspect Mr. Dyer is under the impression you are a third party auditor. I would hope this is not so, however, if it is so, please get in touch with your company for some more detailed and thorough training before conducting future audits.

Many of us who frequent this site are auditors who take our work pretty seriously and spend a lot of time studying and trying to improve our knowledge and skills.

Oh, Mitutoyo offers excellent classes on MSA from time to time that will be helpful also.

Good luck.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Gage R&r

Originally posted by carriek
I was auditing a plant recently and was shock to find that the was doing their gage R&R's with their cmm. I did not question it at the time because i was not real familar with the msa guidelines but would not a gage R&R require actually people doing the trial on the gage (this was a go/nogo fixture.) Can someone please help me out on this?
Can you give me some more info? Tell me exactly what they were doing. I am assuming that you are saying they had a gage (let's say a calipers) and were doing the R&R with a CMM which doesn't make sense to me. Some more details may help us figure out what's going on.
 
D

D.Scott

#4
Sticking my nose in again -

Sounds to me like Carriek is repeating the old question - "Can you do a gage R&R on a measurement system without including the operators". With a CMM, I am assuming he is saying the part is placed and the equipment does all the work - there is no operator variance.

A very short and simple answer is yes, it can be done. BRoyal is right when he says there is good information in the MSA manual, and definately talk to your fellow auditors. I repeat the recommendation of Mitutoyo as an excellent resource.

Don't be discouraged in looking for advice here either. Some great information is available here from some of the best in the quality field.

Dave
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#5
Yup - And if it is being manually manipulated to each point then the operators would have to be used.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Gage type 1 study on CMM Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 2
M Gage R&R with CMM 1X1X10 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
F Comparison of 2 CMM machines using Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
K Gage R on a 10 Piece Sample with a CMM using Minitab Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
V Gage R&R for Variables Data on a CMM (Coordinate Measurement Machine) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
S Does a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) require Gage R & R study? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
R MSA - GRR (Gage R&R) Requirement for CMM Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 21
S GR&R (Gage R&R) on a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 17
B Attribute GR&R (Gage R&R) using a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine)? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
R Calibration of a portable FARO gage portable CMM # F04L2 gauge General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
A Gauging method comparison - Air Gage vs. CMM Measurement General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
Q Certifying Gage Blocks on an In-House CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 19
A Qualifying a CMM Star Probe - Brown/Sharpe CMM Model Gage 2000 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
R How to Determine CMM Gage R&R - Accuracy, Repeatability, Reproducibility? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Questions About CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) Gauge (Gage) R & R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 14
A Gage R&R - Repeatability and Reproducibility of a newly bought CMM machine Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
G Gage Calibration - Using a CMM and Gage Blocks for In-House Calibration ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
D Environmental standards for Gage and CMM laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
T Seeking Spreadsheet for CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
A Gage R&R on a Manual CMM Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
T Gage R (Not Gage R&R) Formulas for CMM Layout Needed Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
D Measuring ID's: Which is the most accurate? CMM / Sunnen Gage / Plug Gage? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
C Gage Block Wringing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Gage R&R with NDC=1 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
S Type 1 Gage R&R or something else? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
G Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
V Thread Plug Gage Pitch GO Diameter out of spec AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 8
G Gage R&R - Where am I going wrong? Part of a FAIR submission (Aerospace) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Gage R&R Excel templates Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
K Gage R&R with more than 3 appraisers Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
Anerol C Gage R&R Template AIAG 4th Edition IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
T Attributes SPC study - Attributive control (Go gage) Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
S Capability or Gage R&R Study for Leak Tester? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 15
N % Tolerance - Type 1 study on the gages, then a gage R&R (ANOVA) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
M Definitive answer on Type 1 vs Type 2 vs Type 3 Gage Study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
V Gage Management and Gage R&R Software General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
D Gage R&R Study on Load Cells - Large chemical blending tanks IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B Minitab Type 1 Gage Study on True Position Question Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 1
S Gage R&R on alloy Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 10
8 Need Help - Runout - Function Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
L Gage R&R studies for identical Devices - Need to confirm the requirement to perform them Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 2
G Stab Pin Size For Check Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
E Functional Gage for TOP applied at RFS Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
F No reproducibility Error in Gage R&R? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
M Template for Attribute Gage R & R wanted Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
G Warning about Deltronic Gage Pins - The "Certification of Accuracy" document General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 13
Q Gage R&R for Instant Measurement Machine Manufacturing and Related Processes 6
M Gage R&R with large inter part variance - Torque Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
D Do we need normal data for gage r&r studies? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom