Is it possible to control Customer Drawings (Prints) by a "Received" Date Stamp?

D

Dan De Yarman

#1
Is it possible to control Customer drawings by a "Received" date stamp, if we so state it in our procedures? We need to keep our Customer's drawings in as perfect condition as possible, in case we need to show them exactly what we received from them.

In other words, what is the best way to control Customer drawings, leaving them as close to the original state in which we received them, as possible?

Dan
 
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L

Laura M

#2
I beleive this would work but may need additional "control". Look at how you make sure an obsolete drawing doesn't get "inadvertantly used." Don't know if you publish your drawings to the manufacturing environment, if so, controlling needs to involve purging of the old. Just receiving the drawing may not make it the current active production drawing, so you may want some status assigned...possibly by file draw identification...example...received for quote, in manufacturing, obsolete, etc. I think just about everybody stamps a received date.

If I remember, you are a tooling shop? At a tooling shop I worked with, the control was 3 phased... in sales(for quote), in engineering(after PO is issued), and released to manufacturing...following completion of engineering design reviews.

Maybe you just wanted a Yes or No answer? Sorry.

Laura
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
I think you are bringin up two separate issues here:
1) The date stamp 'corrupting' the document.
2) Control of the document.

Remember that a date stamp is not evidence of control. It's nothing more than when you received it. What is the latest revision (if any)? The fact that you put a 'Received Date' stamp on them is not considered 'corruption' of the document. On the other hand there is no reason to put a 'received date' stamp on them - log the received date in your tracking log.

A few main elements of Control are:

1) Where is it (original and copies)?
2) What is the lastest rev. - date and/or level?
3) Who is responsible for control / distribution?
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
A date stamp can be a means of control if documented as such...as in the work order uses only docs received on xxx date to represent what PO/Quote etc is being built.....not an ideal.....but ok if done properly.

I like ..personally...and of course depends on circumstances... a product file, with a master list of documents in that file, on a cover sheet...to keep track of changes that occur in process, and mark ups re: a conversation with the customer.

What do you really think is the best way to control them...what are you doing now? does it work?

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 13 January 2000).]
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#5
Originally posted by barb butrym:
A date stamp can be a means of control if documented as such...as in the work order uses only docs received on xxx date to represent what PO/Quote etc is being built.....not an ideal.....but ok if done properly.
If we are talking about Document Control, I disagree. If your work order states something like "...use only print A-29567325-G received on xxx date..." you are not controlling that print nor are you controlling the work instruction. You are (at best) defining configuration for that revision of the work instruction - this is a Configuration Management aspect unrelated to control of the cited document. Actually to control configuration something more concrete is required, typically (such as "Test to Mil-Std-810C, method 26, condition B..." or "...FORD print AW-198364-X revision R...".

Having a document cited on a work instruction does not ensure you have the cited document controlled.
 
T

Tom Goetzinger

#6
I think a lot depends on what you are using the customer's drawings for. I get the feeling that you may be using it to protect your company's interest in case there is a dispute concerning the information you received from them and when it was received. In that case, IMHO, date stamping the print and notating the drawing number,revision, and revision date somewhere in your contract review documentation would be sufficient. If you are using your customer's prints to actually build product in your manufacturing area, I believe more control would be appropriate. We make it a practice to build all product using our own prints; we do have the ability to scan a customer's print into our system and create our own controlled print from it when that is appropriate.
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
not sure I agree....or disagree ....with you marc....depends on the circumstances....I may have had my blinders on.

So this is where I was coming from....
A customer's drawing (or anyones for that matter) doesn't have to be at the latest revision, just the correct one???? And control keeps the incorrect revision from being used....granted most drawings should be at the latest revision because of what they represent (current practice, etc), but a customer's drawing presents many many more options......'what drawing was the product ordered to?' ... for example.

I do agree a date stamp isn't the best control....but it can work if it needs to.
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
YA gotta do the 20 questions routine to make the right decision.....

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 14 January 2000).]
 
D

Dan De Yarman

#9
The reason I started this topic is because I am looking for a different way to control our Customer drawings. We currently use a received / date stamp, that is it. It is left up to our Project Managers to mark their old drawings 'obsolete'.

We manufacture automated equipment: welding, packaging, and assembly (high and low speed). We mostly (80%) supply automotive companies, including DaimlerChrysler. We are both a systems integrator and an original designer. We take machines from concept; through design, build, debug, runoff, install, and service.

Tom is right in his assumption of what we are using the drawings for. We want (need) to be able to show the Customer what we designed the machinery to make. Now that I think about it though, we should probably use the latest rev. of the drawing for final inspection / design validation of the machine.

Our Customer drawings start in the Sales and Applications Department, and then moved on to Engineering. Our machines are designed (and verified) from that print; which is no longer used until we are validating the machine from said drawing. Our machines are manufactured and built by OUR drawings. Only when we start running the machine with parts, do we look at the Customer's drawing again.

Can anyone use this information for any additional input?

Thank you,

Dan
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#10
Originally posted by Dan De Yarman:
The reason I started this topic is because I am looking for a different way to control our Customer drawings. We currently use a received / date stamp, that is it. It is left up to our Project Managers to mark their old drawings 'obsolete'.
I still do not classify this as Control of the print.

Now that I think about it though, we should probably use the latest rev. of the drawing for final inspection / design validation of the machine.
You build to the rev level on the PO (or as defined elsewhere - or should be) unless otherwise specifically stated otherwise. I again cite Configuration Management

Our Customer drawings start in the Sales and Applications Department, and then moved on to Engineering. Our machines are designed (and verified) from that print; which is no longer used until we are validating the machine from said drawing. Our machines are manufactured and built by OUR drawings. Only when we start running the machine with parts, do we look at the Customer's drawing again.
Is this system defined through flow charts or such?

Can you 'readily' tell what drawings you have at a given moment, including what version / rev level? Or do you have to ask each engineer to search his/her files to find out?

Typically what I see is sales as the functionary to officially receive customer prints and to control the drawings. This is often done in a 'customer' or 'project' file (location) with a simple spreadsheet as a Master List. Anyone can get a copy but it is their responsibility to 'check against the sales master' prior to 'making a decision' bsed upon the drawing.

I still really don't see the control aspect in your system. You say you stamp the date the drawing came in. Then you pass it through to several folks and it ends up in Engineering. If I ask you to give me a list, or a number of smaller lists, which list the customer documents you have, what do you have to do? And - with just a date received stamp - if you have no master list - how do you know if a more recent version has been received? Do the engineers have to talk to your Sales and Applications Department folks, and then each other to see if someone 'remembers' whether a drawing has come in since the date stamped on the drawing you have?
 
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