Is MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) only required for SC characteristics?

H

HIDBIGO

#1
TS clause 7.6.1 specifies that statistical studies (MSA) shall be conducted on measurement systems referenced in the control plan. PPAP manual in the section for Process capability specifies that capability studies shall be conducted on SC's and then goes on to say that MSA must be performed. Some folks are interpreting this as if there is a gage associated with an SC on the control plan then an MSA is required, but all other gages on the control pan, if not associated with an SC, do not have to have an MSA. (the issue of family of gages etc is irrelevant to this question). So, is an MSA required for all systems or only for those associated with an SC?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Is MSA required only for SC characteristics?

TS clause 7.6.1 specifies that statistical studies (MSA) shall be conducted on measurement systems referenced in the control plan. PPAP manual in the section for Process capability specifies that capability studies shall be conducted on SC's and then goes on to say that MSA must be performed. Some folks are interpreting this as if there is a gage associated with an SC on the control plan then an MSA is required, but all other gages on the control pan, if not associated with an SC, do not have to have an MSA. (the issue of family of gages etc is irrelevant to this question). So, is an MSA required for all systems or only for those associated with an SC?
If you are TS16949-registered (or claim compliance) you must do what the TS16949 standard says, which is do MSA for all measurement systems (or families thereof) shown on control plans.
 
L

l_govindan

#3
All type of gauges referenced in the control plan should be subjected to MSA studies not only the equipments measuring sc. The purpose is to validate the accurancy of measurements. However if there are many instruments of the same type are used, e.g. vernier caliper one from each type could be studied. The frequency of MSA study can be decided based on the results.

L. Govindan
SIngapore
 
#4
'O' - it sounds like new twist on that old chestnut of only calibrating the final inspection gauges.................:rolleyes:

Clearly, SCs are important and would be the higher priority items for completing the MSA on associated meaurement equipment, but those others in the control plan also are necessary - simply because the organization doesn't want to be rejecting good parts, when it's the measurement system at fault, or letting things go (out to the customer) and risking a reject etc. when they could be out of spec.

The costs alone of those two scenarios are more than justification of the time spent on the MSA.

Good luck!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
TS clause 7.6.1 specifies that statistical studies (MSA) shall be conducted on measurement systems referenced in the control plan. PPAP manual in the section for Process capability specifies that capability studies shall be conducted on SC's and then goes on to say that MSA must be performed. Some folks are interpreting this as if there is a gage associated with an SC on the control plan then an MSA is required, but all other gages on the control pan, if not associated with an SC, do not have to have an MSA. (the issue of family of gages etc is irrelevant to this question). So, is an MSA required for all systems or only for those associated with an SC?
Let's take ISO/TS 16949:2002 and PPAP out of the equation for a moment.

How much is it worth to you to (absolutely) know that:
  • All your inspection and test devices are telling the truth?
  • The measurement system is stable and capable to do what it was designed for?
That will tell what you should do.

Regretfully, too much time is wasted on figuring out "what is required" as opposed to determining what's good for the organization and its customers.

Stijloor
 
H

HIDBIGO

#6
Re: Is MSA required only for SC characteristics?

If you are TS16949-registered (or claim compliance) you must do what the TS16949 standard says, which is do MSA for all measurement systems (or families thereof) shown on control plans.
Thanks. I have always considered this issue from the TS stand point and similar to you the requirement seemed clear enough, but have had some folks over the years argue to the contrary. The arguement has been that if the control plan references gages that do not belong to an SC or a family of gages for which studies have not been conducted, then doing one is a burden and not a priority and anyway the customer doesn't care. While I have stuck to my guns on this issue and have had several registrars side with me on this issue, I recently had a situation where under observation I was requested to not make the non completion of MSA's on gages an issue until a review of this with some powers that be could be done and a 'ruling' provide to all their TS auditors. So, your feedbcak is helpful for the time being.
Thanks again.
 
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