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Is Scope Validation required for ISO 9001?

H

hari_p

#1
#1
Dear Cove cofriends,

We are one of the reputed companies in the middle east with interests in a wide range of the construction spectrum such as EPC( Engineering, Procurement, COnstruction), Infrastructure Project Development, Construction (Oil & Gas), Facilities Maintenance etc. Now, we had an external recertification audit conducted last month, and they successfully conducted the audit without any observations (thanks to the very sound and matured QMS we have :)), but the certification agency now have reported that the certificates could not be issued because we don't have live projects in some of the business line identified in the scope of the QMS. But how do you expect to have continued business in some domains where huge investment is involved particularly in this time of global recession. We have in the past and very recently (within a span of 1 or 2 years) succesfully completed projects in all of these domains. Is it really required to have continued live projects in all the areas identified in the scope of the QMS. Even there is no such requirement in ISO 9001. Please help.
 
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somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
#2
Why not have a broader single scope that encompasses all your activities, which the CB will appreciate as well as your customers. The more you divide scope, the more specific examples the CB would look to audit to mention in the scope.
 
H

harry

Super Moderator
#3
#3
hari_p said:
............................ but the certification agency now have reported that the certificates could not be issued because we don't have live projects in some of the business line identified in the scope of the QMS. .............................
Click to expand...
The question that you should ask yourself is whether you will issue others with a certificate to cover a scope where there are no on going projects and related documents to audit (unable to provide evidence). The answer is obvious.

Somashekar's suggestion is one possible way but why had these issues not being ironed out with your CB earlier? My CB agreed beforehand to expand my scope if we could provide auditable evidence in subsequent audits.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
#4
harry said:
The question that you should ask yourself is whether you will issue others with a certificate to cover a scope where there are no on going projects and related documents to audit (unable to provide evidence). The answer is obvious.

Somashekar's suggestion is one possible way but why had these issues not being ironed out with your CB earlier? My CB agreed beforehand to expand my scope if we could provide auditable evidence in subsequent audits.
Click to expand...
CB's (Lead auditor) take a lot of effort to detail the scope and get agreement beginning in the opening meeting and finalizing in the closing meeting in the presence of the Management, MR and all responsible managers, so that it is clear and to the proper benefit of the client.
 
H

hari_p

#5
#5
harry said:
The question that you should ask yourself is whether you will issue others with a certificate to cover a scope where there are no on going projects and related documents to audit (unable to provide evidence). The answer is obvious.

Somashekar's suggestion is one possible way but why had these issues not being ironed out with your CB earlier? My CB agreed beforehand to expand my scope if we could provide auditable evidence in subsequent audits.
Click to expand...
Dear Harry,

Thanks for your informative reply. But the field we are talking about is very different from manufacturing, like manufacturing of electronic assemblies, automotive etc. When we say EPC, it would be interesting to note that only handful of EPC contracts get awarded per year globally. Therefore it is very unlikely that we get EPC contracts per year to demonstrate our compliance. Does that mean that we need to exclude such business lines from our scope? We already have demonstrated our capabilities in this field with some projects and we have the system in place to handle such works in the future. I had assumed the ISO 9001 certifies your system capability and not the product quality.
 
H

harry

Super Moderator
#6
#6
I know because I carry out 'design and built' projects. I too, had plenty to show in the past but that is the past. For as long as I don't have a project in hand for my CB to audit, I don't expect to get a scope for it - otherwise it would be of no value (at least to me). And yes, because of the economic situation, I had not being able to land a new job in this field for the last few years.
 
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