Is the Business Plan an Input, Resource or Output of Management Review?

Business Plan - Input, Output or Resource to the Management Review?

  • Input

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Output

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Resource

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • All of the Above

    Votes: 10 50.0%
  • None of the Above

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • It's not important, get on with some real work!

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#12
Would it be more useful to think of management review as an input of the business planning process?
It depends on your process, really. If you have a review before you start the planning process then the output from review becomes an input to planning.

From my own point of view I would rather not separate Review from the rest of the business planning process and just acknowledge it as a step in the process (and not bother too much about I/P, O/P and measures for the individual step).
 
C

chergh - 2008

#13
If it hadn't been for this thread I wouldn't have really gave the topic much thought but if your trying to understand how activities interelate with each other I find it easier to relate management review to business planning rather than relate business planning to the management review.

The planning process in the company where I work doesn't really start or end but is a continual cycle, and in the few years I have worked here it is moving closer to what I would recognise as a PDCA cycle (which is nice).

Certainly in management review items such as on time delivery, repair TAT's, bugs found after release are all discussed and this certainly feeds into business planning to determine resources required by departments etc.

I sometimes find it useful to seperate things and determine how they interact in terms inputs and outputs to benefit my own understanding of the process but I wouldn't contend that doing this intrinsically brings any other benefits or adds any value.
 
M

M Greenaway

#14
I would say that business planning, and by that I guess we are talking of 3 or 5 year strategic plans, are the output of the management review process at the very highest level.

Personally I would state this to an auditor as being my 'management review' in terms of ISO9001 compliance. Now I know inexperienced auditors will get all shirty if they cannot see that the written quality policy statement hasnt been reviewed in this process, but that is largely ISO9001 compliance auditing trivia.

You may have a secondary level managment review when you talk about things going wrong, the traditional approach if you like, but really that should just be a feed into the main strategic business planning process.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#15
I agree that the business plan is a very high level function that ought to be influenced by management review, not the other way around, especially since management review covers so much besides the business plan.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#16
...... especially since management review covers so much besides the business plan.
Sorry, Jennifer. I don't get this comment. :confused:

IMHO Management Review (of the Quality System) is a very small part of what the business does whereas the business plan covers everything the organization is planning to do in the time period it covers.
 
M

M Greenaway

#17
Should we maybe stop thinking of 'management review' as an event, e.g. a specific meeting of this title chaired once a year/quarter/month or whatever, and think about the process of management review, e.g. senior staff looking at process performance and taking actions to ensure future direction is kept on course with business objectives, which to my mind happens all the time, in fact is a day to day function of managers.

Difficult to present to auditors I know, but management review is what managers do isnt it ??
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
Should we maybe stop thinking of 'management review' as an event, e.g. a specific meeting of this title chaired once a year/quarter/month or whatever, and think about the process of management review, e.g. senior staff looking at process performance and taking actions to ensure future direction is kept on course with business objectives, which to my mind happens all the time, in fact is a day to day function of managers.

Difficult to present to auditors I know, but management review is what managers do isnt it ??
Great point! Exactly! Why "Management Review" became just an "ISO" activity to be performed at some interval is beyond me... My view is that any time managers meet to talk business, you have a management review. Period.

Stijloor.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#19
I would say that business planning, and by that I guess we are talking of 3 or 5 year strategic plans, are the output of the management review process at the very highest level.

Personally I would state this to an auditor as being my 'management review' in terms of ISO9001 compliance. Now I know inexperienced auditors will get all shirty if they cannot see that the written quality policy statement hasnt been reviewed in this process, but that is largely ISO9001 compliance auditing trivia.

You may have a secondary level managment review when you talk about things going wrong, the traditional approach if you like, but really that should just be a feed into the main strategic business planning process.
The Business Plan is very important, in that it sets the strategic goals and objectives for the whole business, as best it can forecast. It usually is not produced DURING a Management Review meeting, so it would not be an output. If you want to make it during a MR meeting, that would be OK. Then it would be an output...but what does it matter?

Management Review meetings and other management meetings are not necessarily the same thing. A Management Review meeting is designed to periodically review whether objectives and targets are being met, and the expectations the internal QMS sets forth are being performed effectively. It is not an ordinary business meeting, and certainly should not be a daily production meeting. Because it is different, and has a specific purpose for review and planning, it should have a specific and different agenda.

Because the MR meeting should have a specific purpose and agenda, the standard lists, as a minimum, the inputs and outputs that must be considered. It would appear, maybe in previous standards, some people's meetings were not focused and did not cover these required items.

Since we auditors must audit whether you are meeting the standard at a minimum, us "inexperienced, 'shirty' auditors," (and even a few of us experienced ones), must review that these required inputs are reviewed. That includes the darn Quality Policy, even though we don't expect to see too many changes. But gee, it would be a good opportunity to remind the managers what they supposedly COMMITTED to work to...

A MR meeting (MRM) should be reviewing the performance of the past, based on metrics, against the defined objectives. It should be discussing the current affairs, particularly these objectives that are not being met, and making course adjustments for the future, to ensure that the objectives are achieved. There you have past, present and future in one strategy meeting.

The meeting may propose changes to certain objectives or items in the business plan, which would be perfect. That is the intent of this "review" meeting.

And, all the other meetings that managers do are intended to run the day-to-day details of the business.
 
Last edited:
M

M Greenaway

#20
hjilling, you simply seem to be re-stating the ISO requirements for 'management review' without question.

Saying that gee the managers should know what they are committed to by reviewing the quality policy, which is just yet another ISO 9001 required piece of documentation, is just naive !

I simply dont buy it.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Business plan/ Benchmark - Input of business plan/marketing strategy and benchmarks APQP and PPAP 2
E BCP (Business Continuity Plan) Call Tree Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 13
M ISO 9001:2015 8.2.1 Contingency Plan required for small Business? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Informational Australia – TGA business plan 2019-20 Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
B Seeking for an example or a template of a Business Plan Service Industry Specific Topics 3
L Need a bone to throw at a customer (Business Continuity/Contingency Plan) Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 11
R How to test a BCP (Business Continuity Plan) Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 6
K Testing the Business Continuity Plan Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 5
somashekar Business Process Plan concerning MOH Malaysia Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 9
Richard Regalado Sample Plan for Developing an ISO 22301 Business Continuity Management System (BCMS) Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 3
M Business Plan vs Quality Plan in the TS16949 standard Benchmarking 5
J How to audit a confidential business plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
N How Do I Make a Business Plan - 17025 Accredited Laboratory ISO 17025 related Discussions 3
T Incorporate BCP (Business Continuity Plan) into QMS Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 1
I Quality Assurance Business Plan & Strategy Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3
I Business Continuity Plan for manufacturing a IVD ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
I Business Plan for Setting Up a Quality Department Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
M Do ISO requires Business Plan? Any sample template? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
P Can anyone give Business Continuity Plan (BCP) (ISO 27001) Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 10
M Will a Business Plan be included in an ISO 9001 Audit? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 22
J Does my company's Business Plan Contents comply with requirements of TS 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S ISO/TC 71 Business Plan - Concrete, reinforced concrete and pre-stressed concrete" Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
RoxaneB Vendor Listing in a Business Continuity Plan / Disaster Recover Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 6
P Reference or recommendation of items to be included in the Business Plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Linking Quality Plan Objectives to the Business Plan? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
S How do you Prepare your Business Plan for year 2008 - Focusing on QUALITY Function World News 3
N Quality Plan template for Engineering, Procurement and Construction Business ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D What does "Customer Business Plan" in the AIAG APQP manual mean? APQP and PPAP 0
J Business Plan audit questions for TS16949 audit? General Auditing Discussions 1
K Business Plan - Quality Objectives and Measureables - TS 16949 Para 5.4.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
S Business Plan - Seeking Example based on ISO/TS 16949 requirements Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
S TS16949 Desk Audit - Business Plan Contents IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
M Strategic Business Plan - Strategic Business Objectives vs. Quality Objectives ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 47
J Business Plan and Management Reviews Management Review Meetings and related Processes 2
T Business Plan - Training QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 2
H Corelation Of The Intent Between Business Plan, Company Data And ISO 9000 4.1? QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 9
M Business Plan - More than one to form the whole QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 1
A Business Plan ISO 9000:2000 - Who are they to say we need a Business Plan? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
D Business Plan Requirements - 4.1.1.2 Scope of quality objectives in the business plan IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
R 4.1.4 Business Plan preparation QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 3
Marc Customer advocacy should be contained in the company business plan QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 1
N ISO 9001 - Training business with fewer than 5 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
qualprod Business Continuity Planning in ISO 9001? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
S ISO 9001 implementation in a Gold exporting business ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
H Expanding our business and the implications to our QMS Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
Richard Regalado Top 10 operational risks of 2019 for business continuity planning Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 6
Nicole Desouza ISO / AS Certification - Small business with less than 100 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
R Supplier evaluation and business needs in the context of ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
M SOP Sample for BC/ISO22301 (Business Continuity) wanted Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 4
M BCM (Business Continuity) and BPM in a company with an IT System Business Continuity & Resiliency Planning (BCRP) 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom