Is the competence of third party auditors improving?

Is the competence of 3rd party auditors improving?

  • Yes, auditors are getting better

    Votes: 7 25.9%
  • No, auditors are getting dumber

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • No change in my assessment

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • Auditor competence is an oxymoron

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Total voters
    27
D

dphuongqa

#31
Auditors are getting better, but there seems to be no consistency among them. Our Company is gearing up for a RQA food safety audit, has anyone been through an RQA audit?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#32
Perhaps they will outgrow it.
Perhaps, but not before damage has been done. The continual cycle of auditor development coming in and out of the system means that we will always have the "inexperienced", green auditors focusing on their comfort zones of documents, records, calibration stickers, mundane issues that make so many people abhor audits and auditors.
 
C

CliffK

#33
I don't think there's been much change over the years.

Part of the reason, I think, is that auditors don't get much performance feedback from customers. Some customers don't know what an excellent audit is because they've never experienced one, resulting in low expectations. People with low expectations don't provide feedback.

Other customers won't complain because of fear of retaliation from the auditor or because they're not aware that they can. To be fair, I've never seen an auditor fail to tell a customer about the appeals process; but then I've never seen an auditor tell a customer that the appeals avenue can also be used for complaints about auditor behavior.

Some customers just don't care. Sometimes it's because they just want the certificate for lobby decoration. Other times it's because they've been given too much irrelevant "help" in previous audits.

I know that at least one registrar has a feedback page on its web site. It would be interesting to know how much information they get and how they use it.
 
P

potdar

#34
Perhaps, but not before damage has been done. The continual cycle of auditor development coming in and out of the system means that we will always have the "inexperienced", green auditors focusing on their comfort zones of documents, records, calibration stickers, mundane issues that make so many people abhor audits and auditors.
Its not just the auditees who have come to abhor the audits and auditors. The same also stands true for the auditors. I believe that is the major reason for the heavy attrition rate in the business and a lot of green auditors continuing to float around.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#35
Its not just the auditees who have come to abhor the audits and auditors. The same also stands true for the auditors. I believe that is the major reason for the heavy attrition rate in the business and a lot of green auditors continuing to float around.
The major reason for the attrition is burnout from the work itself and the stress it creates..............you get absolutely fried.

Travel stinks

Hotels stink

Rental cars stink

Restaurant food stinks

Airports stink

And honestly, some places you go just flat out leave stink behind in their wake

You don't even know the beginning of it...................
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#36
The major reason for the attrition is burnout from the work itself and the stress it creates..............you get absolutely fried.

Travel stinks
Not really....look here. :D

You need this. ;)

Rental cars stink
How about this rental machine?

Restaurant food stinks
How about this classic?


Not a busy place. :yes:


And honestly, some places you go just flat out leave stink behind in their wake

You don't even know the beginning of it...................
That, I can not help you with......

Stijloor.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#37
The major reason for the attrition is burnout from the work itself and the stress it creates..............you get absolutely fried.
You are right, Randy. It is a stressful job. But it is also very rewarding, in many ways. Many of the auditors that I personally hired in the 1992-1994 time frame are still around, working for us. One of the "secrets" is having a scheduling function that cares about the clients, but also the people doing the audits. Balancing the need of both parties. Another "secret" is the screening process to weed out auditor candidates that can not endure "life on the road". Actually, when I interview applicants, that is the first issue I discuss with them. As important as professional maturity, experience, knowledge, etc... is their ability to endure the business traveler's rat race.

Good auditors deserve their needs taken into account as well. If a CB fails to keep their auditors "happy", the end result is not only high turnover, but also stressed out and disgruntled auditors interacting with anxious and demanding customers leading to :argue:.

That is one of the reasons I had created the Does your Registrar have a high Auditor turnover rate? thread.

Most people don't realize how the CB business model, internal processes and respect for their auditors influence their experience, in the receiving end of an audit.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J Defining staff competence - Small mechanical workshop Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 20
N Help with basic understanding of Competence requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
C ISO/IEC 17021-1 clause 7.1.2 - Determination of competence criteria Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
V ISO 9001:2015 7.2 Competence ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 35
I When exactly was "competence" added to the ISO-9001 standard? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
Q Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
I Who owns your Competence, Awareness and Training process? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
M AS9100D Competence and Training Records - X-Ray AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
J ISO 13485:2016 Section 6.2 - Documenting the process for establishing competence ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
A Environmental Management System Lead Auditor Competence ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
J Training Personnel on the QMS - 7.3 Awareness or Competence ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
S SOP Training/Competence in 24/7 Operation contractor company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
H How to Establish and Document Competence of Employees in a Small Company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
sswaim Auditing Internal Laboratory Personnel for Competence General Auditing Discussions 4
M Training Competence - Contract Services ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
I Struggling with Training and Competence ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
S Evidence of Competence, Training and Awareness Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 5
A ISO 9001:2015 - Knowledge vs. Competence - 7.5.1 and 7.2 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
somashekar How to Determine the Necessary Employee Competence ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
M Problems with Competence/Skills Matrix (6.2 Human Resources) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
G Audit Finding against ISO/TS 16949 6.2.2 Competence, Training and Awareness IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Sidney Vianna EMS auditor competence ISO Standard published - ISO/IEC TS 17021-2:2012 Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 1
A ISO 19011:2012 - Emphasis on Risk Analysis, Competence of Auditors and Vocabulary Internal Auditing 2
L Can Extent of Documentation differ due to the Competence of Personnel? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
C Certificate of Conformity Competence - Training Staff the Responsibilities of Signing Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 5
F What Compliance to ISO 9001, 6.2.2 Competence, Awareness and Training Means ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 35
K Competence, Training and Awareness - Documenting Training and Confidentiality Aspects ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
M Training and Competence requirements in a Small Machine Shop AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
M AS9100 Rev C Initial Certification - Determination of Competence AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
G Searching for Auditor Competence and Training .ppt presentation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
V Auditor Competence Noncompliance Internal Auditing 49
F CVs/Resumes & Competence, Training, and Awareness - Employee Confidentiality ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
F ISO 9001 Clause 6.2.2.a Competence, Training, and Awareness Requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
P ISO 13485 Competence, Awareness and Training Requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
S Competence Awareness and Training - ISO 9001 Clause 6.2.2 d) - How to do ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
L Aerospace Industry Competence Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
A Keeping Records of Competence of Employees Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
A Competence Requirements for OH&S Compliance Assessment - 4.5.2 Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 1
D Determine the necessary Competence for personnel ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
somashekar Top Management and Competence, Awareness, Training ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 25
C Internal Auditor lack of Competence Internal Auditing 76
B Definition Competence - What is the meaning of Competence? ISO 9001 Clause 6.2.2 Competence Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 13
E Calibration Clerk Competence and Training General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 14
B How to Evaluate Competence of an Internal Translator ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
A Competence for performing compliance audits - 4.5.2 Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 6
K Determining Competence - What is the best way to determine employee competence AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 12
C Temporary Laborer Training Requirements - 6.2.2 Competence, Awareness and Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 12
D HR (Human Resources): Matrix of Competence in USA - Education Level aspect ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
B Determining Competence - Understanding clause 6.2.2 a) of ISO9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
Sidney Vianna IAQG Guidance PCAP 001 - Competence Management Guideline AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom