Is the customer always right? Personally, I strongly disagree.

#1
Is the customer always right?

Here is something that concerns both philosophy and controversy:
db said:
in the Gripe Bar thread ( http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6859 ) in the coffee break forum.

Just remember.............The customer is always right :rolleyes:
Is he really? Personally, I strongly disagree... The customer is however always the customer. So how do we handle it?

Over to the forum...

/Claes
 
Last edited:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
L

leanne - 2009

#2
Re: Is the customer always right?

Claes Gefvenberg said:
Here is something that concerns both philosophy and controversy:

Is he really? Personally, I strongly disagree... The customer is however always the customer. So how do we handle it?

Over to the forum...

/Claes
I also disagree. How do we handle it? With a great deal of tact & diplomacy.
 
C

Craig H.

#3
Hi, all.

One thing that throws a wrench in all of this, IMO, is the trend towards some big customers charging a unilateral fee whenever they want to claim some sort of damage (SCAR). Sometimes even for things like damage in transit, though the contract says FOB producer's plant, and its their trucker.

This is on top of demanding the lowest price, which already squeezes margins. Instead of a partnership, this is a tyranical, dictatorial, relationship. Some of them we need to let swing in the wind.

Is the customer always right? Absolutely not.
 
#4
Re: Is the customer always right?

Claes Gefvenberg said:
Here is something that concerns both philosophy and controversy:



Is he really? Personally, I strongly disagree... The customer is however always the customer. So how do we handle it?

Over to the forum...

/Claes
Hey! You're quoting me out of context and without my permission!!! I'll Sue!

The :rolleyes: is the key here. I do not even believe the customer always thinks they are right. I strongly believes sometimes the customer knows they are wrong, but are willing to procede anyway. I think it was the book "Lean Thinking" that discussed how American business are always trying to position ourselves in power over our customer/supplier. Instead of work with each other, we attempt to find the perfect angle to leverage ourselves.

Is the customer always right? No, but the customer is the customer and we need to decide which fight is worth it and when is it time to say the customer is no longer the customer (I've fired a customer before).
 
#5
Re: Is the customer always right?

Craig H. said:
This is on top of demanding the lowest price, which already squeezes margins. Instead of a partnership, this is a tyranical, dictatorial, relationship. Some of them we need to let swing in the wind.

Is the customer always right? Absolutely not.
Unfortunately, this happens, and it is obviously tyrannical... Some people would be well adviced to have a look at ISO9004:2000, clause 4.3h:

h)
Mutually beneficial supplier relationships
An organization and its suppliers are interdependent and a mutually beneficial relationship enhances the ability of both to create value.
/Claes​
 
B

Bob_M

#6
Re: Re: Is the customer always right?

Claes Gefvenberg said:
Unfortunately, this happens, and it is obviously tyrannical... Some people would be well adviced to have a look at ISO9004:2000, clause 4.3h:

h)
Mutually beneficial supplier relationships
An organization and its suppliers are interdependent and a mutually beneficial relationship enhances the ability of both to create value.
/Claes​
Very nice sounding but not an auditable clause - most likely on purpose - Some BIG companies could care less about their suppliers or their relationship regardless how nice their letters and mandates sound.

ISO like systems in the hands of BIG tyranical companies just make life **** for the (small) suppliers that can't afford to "fire" their customers...

Quote: "One thing that throws a wrench in all of this, IMO, is the trend towards some big customers charging a unilateral fee whenever they want to claim some sort of damage (SCAR). Sometimes even for things like damage in transit, though the contract says FOB producer's plant, and its their trucker."

We don't see alot of this, but we do see it and it is ridiculous and disgusting!!! Especially the FOB part! Partial shipment lost/damaged, and WE are expected to make the claims and replace the parts and possibly take a negative hit in our delivery performance, and probably get a SCAR for something the truckers did.

Many days (the quiet ones) I like my quality job. But when customers start bitching about minor things we realistically can't control, I know why I was happy NOT being the Quality Guy in the past... *sigh*
 
C

Craig H.

#7
Bob said:

" We don't see alot of this, but we do see it and it is ridiculous and disgusting!!! Especially the FOB part! Partial shipment lost/damaged, and WE are expected to make the claims and replace the parts and possibly take a negative hit in our delivery performance, and probably get a SCAR for something the truckers did.

Many days (the quiet ones) I like my quality job. But when customers start bitching about minor things we realistically can't control, I know why I was happy NOT being the Quality Guy in the past... *sigh*"

Unfortunately, we see this often - at least a couple times a month. We are trying inflatable bladders for the trucks, so maybe that will help. We take pictures of each load just before the door is closed. Even when we prove that the load was packed properly, the fact that the trucker drove like an idiot does not take us off the hook. If it was small customers that did it, we would tell them off. But its the big boys, and sometimes on their own truck with their driver.

There are certain companies that will never see a dollar of mine...


:frust:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Is the customer always right?

Claes Gefvenberg said:
The customer is always right.

Is he really?
/Claes
Of course not -- unless your customer is God. ;)

I think db was being sarcastic.
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#9
Is the customer alwys right, no, will a customer ever admit they were at fault not likely. As was stated before you need to choose which battles to fight and when to part ways with a customer on good terms.

Put yourself in the shoes of the customer, how many times have you ever admitted to your supplier (grocery, shoe, clothing stores, etc..) you were wrong?
 
#10
Re: Re: Is the customer always right?

Mike S. said:
Of course not -- unless your customer is God. ;)

I think db was being sarcastic.
I know he was... But somehow the :rolleyes: got lost on the way... Sorry about that db, but it was there in the first post in this thread.

/Claes
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Customer is always right Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 34
D Production before Quality - Is the Customer Always Right? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 9
P CSR (Customer Specific Requirements) in TS 16949 Audits - Always required? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 27
B Retention Samples when Customer Leaves Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
M Email Template that go to a customer and then get returned to us for RMA/Warranty Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
B FCA US Customer Specific IATF 16949- Critical Characteristics 8.6.2 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
D ISO 13485 8.2.1 and 8.2.2 - Customer Feedback and Customer Complaints ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
J Customer Complaint Response 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 3
V Quality review Meeting with Customer for complaints we received Customer Complaints 6
D IATF16949 - Interpretation of Customer Requirements clauses Elsmar Cove Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 2
S Obligation to accept customer audits? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 23
D IATF16949 7.5.3.2.1 Record Retention - Our Product or Customer Product? Elsmar Cove Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 1
S Customer Specific Requirements (CSR) not signed/approved IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 17
B FCA US IATF 16949 Customer Requirements updates Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3
G Same parts but new customer - What will the auditor ask me? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
R Customer Satisfaction importance in companies with Government/Public Administration as main customer? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
G Self Assessment Audit from a new potential customer General Auditing Discussions 3
P Customer Corrective Action Requests in OASIS? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Ooi Yew Jin Customer E audit preparation Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 2
qualprod Managing a "special" customer into the QMS? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
C Certificate of Conformance Form - COC for each customer a controlled document? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
R Who is the customer in the ISO/IEC 17025:2017? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
BeaBea ISO 9001 Customer Feedback Methods - What has worked for your company? Service Industry Specific Topics 17
T Root Cause Failure Analysis - Not following Customer packaging Specification Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 5
V Customer Print Specifications on PFMEA FMEA and Control Plans 13
S Issuing of CoC to Customer in a Word or Excel format ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
D Design Transfer Template capturing Customer Specific Requirements Other Medical Device Related Standards 3
W Direct to customer export of medical device (class I: prescription lenses + frame) US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 2
S How to treat a customer complaint ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
I ISO 9001:2015 Section 9.3.2 C1 "customer satisfaction and feedback from relevant interested parties" ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
JoCam Labeling to Customer Requirements EU Medical Device Regulations 1
T Advice needed - Environmental MS - unwritten but customer requests policy document ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
Q Customer Satisfaction through On-Time Delivery ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
Pau Calvo PPAP customer requirements in the APQP APQP and PPAP 25
T Nonconforming product at customer detected by a routine inspection by field service Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
0 PPM calculation of customer complaints for PMS Customer Complaints 10
A Definition of customer in ITP (Inspection & Test Plan) Contract Review Process 3
I MSA requirement for 5 Micrometers + CP changes need customer approval? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
F Struggling with a root cause analysis - Customer Returns - Escape issue Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 15
S Best software for customer support/complaints? Customer Complaints 0
F ISO 17025 8.6.2 Customer Feedback Analysis ISO 17025 related Discussions 5
N Customer asking if their notified body can audit us ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
N ISO 9001:2015 Customer Complaints Requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
PhilM Nonconformance report, Customer complaint investigations and RMAs ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
G Problem Resolution Report Monitoring - Customer complaint or PRR as general motors use Customer Complaints 12
Nicole Desouza Sampling plan for a customer who wants AQL 1.0 (per ANSI Z1.4) AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 5
Ron Rompen 2D matrix issue - Parts (machined steel) returned from the customer Design and Development of Products and Processes 0
Juby Tan Action on Customer Replacement (Nonconforming Product - ISO 9001) Customer Complaints 2
Q How should I analyze measurement correlation between me and customer? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 12
D Customer and Company Specific Requirements for notification of Customers of a change in Management or Key Personnel Customer and Company Specific Requirements 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom