Is there a direct relation between surface roughness and gloss?

Thomas Dorner

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hi all,

We have internal and supplier discussions about the question "Is there a direct relation between surface roughness and gloss?"

These are the standards related to the topic:
ISO 2813:2014 - Paints and varnishes - Determination of gloss value at 20 degrees, 60 degrees and 85 degrees

ISO 4287:1997 - Geometrical Product Specifications (GPS) — Surface texture: Profile method — Terms, definitions and surface texture parameters
ISO 4288:1996 - Geometrical Product Specifications (GPS) — Surface texture: Profile method — Rules and procedures for the assessment of surface texture

Now, the discussion leads towards yes and no. Well, this doesn't help to solve the conflict with our supplier.

Isn't it the case that there are at least 3 factors that influence readings - surface roughness, gloss and surface type of finish?

Any clarification is very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
Thomas
 
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Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#2
The short answer is yes. The surface roughness has a direct impact on the measured gloss of the part.

Gloss is a measure of the amount of light reflected back towards the observer - if the surface is 'rough' then the light is scattered. If the surface is very smooth (think of a mirror) then the light is reflected back towards the observer.

Hope this is of some help to you in your discussions.
 

Thomas Dorner

Involved In Discussions
#3
The short answer is yes. The surface roughness has a direct impact on the measured gloss of the part.

Gloss is a measure of the amount of light reflected back towards the observer - if the surface is 'rough' then the light is scattered. If the surface is very smooth (think of a mirror) then the light is reflected back towards the observer.

Hope this is of some help to you in your discussions.
Hi Ron,

Thanks for your quick answer. It does make sense, but let's assume the surface has a high roughness and it's finish is chrome (which is highly reflective), wouldn't this effect the reading? I mean, doesn't has the surface finish influence the direct correlation?

Thanks,
Thomas
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Hi Ron,

Thanks for your quick answer. It does make sense, but let's assume the surface has a high roughness and it's finish is chrome (which is highly reflective), wouldn't this effect the reading? I mean, doesn't has the surface finish influence the direct correlation?

Thanks,
Thomas
Yes, the type (and quality) of finish will also affect the reading. However, even a chrome plated surface which is rough will have a lower gloss reading than a chrome plated surface which is smooth.
 

Thomas Dorner

Involved In Discussions
#6
In your initial post you mentioned a conflict with your supplier. Please explain.
Hi Jim,

We discussed the problem stated and we left with the agreement to do more research and at our next meeting we will establish requirements that we both can agree on. I just felt I missed something at eng-school many years ago‍♂️, a refresher would be very helpful.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#7
Hi Jim,

We discussed the problem stated and we left with the agreement to do more research and at our next meeting we will establish requirements that we both can agree on. I just felt I missed something at eng-school many years ago‍♂️, a refresher would be very helpful.
Please explain the nature of the disagreement, and what prompted it.
 

mattador78

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Hi Jim,

We discussed the problem stated and we left with the agreement to do more research and at our next meeting we will establish requirements that we both can agree on. I just felt I missed something at eng-school many years ago‍♂️, a refresher would be very helpful.
When you mention the roughness of the surface are you discussing the substrate underneath the finish or the finish itself? My usual response to this is that the finish of a product is a reflection of the substrate underneath. Using zinc or chrome plating as an example a machined part will have a brighter higher gloss/reflection than standard steel plate or a casting. The preparation and the quality of the base material can and is as important to any finishing process as the actual product used in the finish. Going to the quality of the finish itself higher quality materials used should provide better finishes dependent upon the process itself.
 
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