Is this exclusion Permissible by the standard - Company Divisional Differences

[safi99]

Hi

I have recently started the process of QMS implementation in the company. The structure of organization is X=A+B+C i.e., within the company X there are three different divisions with specific work scope, The divisions A and B have been certified for ISO 9001:2000 whereas I’m working on C for the purpose. The organization processes in the C excludes the Human Resource and Admin Dept. as it is assumed to be generalized between all the divisions and serves all of them equally. It is as if a separate division apart from the A, B, and C. However, we plan to maintain a single Quality Manual for all the divisions with due reference of HR & Admin dept. in the manual as exclusion from the scope of any of division A,B,C.
I’m puzzled as the exclusion of HR & Admin.from the scope of Division C doesn’t fall under clause 7 of ISO 9001 requirements. How could this exclusion be justified? (eg, When C is chosen as audit area for certification). Do you think the audit will be incomplete unless HR & Admin is included in the audit scope of each division? Please justify in either case.
In case of inclusion of HR & Admin Dept. in the Audit scope of each division how one can avoid the repetition of audit for the HR & Admin Dept. as each division would be audited at different times.
Please note that at the time of certification audit for the divisions A & B, HR & Admin. Dept. has been shown as integrated process of the respective division in the Division’ s Quality Manual and got audited each time.

Thanks in advance for the help

 

[atitheya]

Re: Is this exclusion Permissible by the standard

Hi Safi,

You may or may not include your HR & Admin deptt within the ambit of division C or its Quality Manual, entirely upto the organisation how it wants to structure themselves.

However,

You still will need to implement clause 6 (ISO9001:2000) as applicable and as mentioned in the standard. Please note, HR&Admin is not a part of the standard ISO9001:2000. At the same time you will need to ensure that competent, trained people work in good environment given the infrastructure needed to do so. If you need to interact with company X's HR&Admin division to do so, for division 'C' it kind of becomes an outsourced activity on which 'C' must ensure control and compliance to its requirement.

Clause 6 of ISO9001:2000 needs to be addressed wether you give it a name of HR&Admin department / division or in any other way as suitable to the organisation / division.

 

[joshua_sx1]

Re: Is this exclusion Permissible by the standard

...a very common scenario if your HR has an excellent relationship “upstairs”…

…anyway, my previous company has the same set-up… the main HR (Admin.) Dept. is not included in the ISO internal and external audits…

…and here is the obvious main reason - the HR department has a strong connection “upstairs” for maintaining this status quo…

...so guys like us were hired to do “something” without touching the “untouchables”… so, what we did to comply with ISO requirements in spite of this self-exclusion? we create a small entity which focused on the requirements of ISO regarding human resources… this “small entity” is the one directly coordinating with our main HR for our employees records i.e. training, qualifications including hiring process and any relevance records and documentations… (and the top management doesn’t really care to pay duplicate works – that’s the beauty of it)… he he he…

...anyway, they're still having this certification... good for them huh?

 

[safi99]

Thanks to both of you for imparting valuable information.
Regards
safi
Kuwait