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Is this one of the worst policy statements you have seen?

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#51
My point precisely! Why spend so much time fretting about a policy, the content of which, is pre-ordained by the standard. Nice thought to get top management to espouse their inner most feelings about quality but ..... The reality in my experience is that the policy is a mere figurehead - nice to look at but of little material good when it comes to achieving quality on a day-to-day basis.
 
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G

Gary E MacLean

#52
Benjamin28, you are quite right.

"Top Management shall provide evidence of its commitment...by establishing the quality policy." see 5.1.b

Now, establish is not exactly "write" but nothing can be written until it has been established.

Actually Wes, there is nothing in the standard about approving the Quality Policy, either by Top Management or anyone for that matter. But, yes, Top Management is supposed to establish the Quality Policy. I have worked with one, and only one, organization that did just that, and without me having to scold them for not doing it. We all know it is the Quality Manager who gets it done.

Top Management is supposed to "make certain" several other things are done with and to the Quality Policy but that Top Management does not have to do those things - see 5.3 in the standards.

And yes, I forget to whom, but yes it is depressing. I have been called in to clean up the other person's mess and many times it is worse than starting from scratch. My favorite call is still

"Yeah, can you tell me what this ISO thing is all about?"

I at least am pretty sure there has not yet been any great damage done.

Gary M
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#53
Now, establish is not exactly "write" but nothing can be written until it has been established.
This is right on the money, imo. It's another case (as with "procedures") where we confuse the container (the written policy) with the thing it contains (the actual policy). A policy is a standard method--a requirement for the way that business is to be done. Without the imprimatur, and impetus, of the highest level of management it's likely to be impotent. It doesn't matter who writes it, but the authority with which it's established is critical.
 

CHRSCLLNGS

Involved In Discussions
#54
Thanks for all your comments guys and gals, I have started to rewrite it, it's not something that I want to rush. It's hung in the reception and I don't want potential/existing customers to walk in and read the drivel that was there (if they pay any attention at all) There is a lot of work to be done on the whole QMS so it's good that I love what I do.
Cheers
Chris
 
G

Gary E MacLean

#56
I can appreciate your trying to make the best of your documented system. I applaud :applause: your conviction to right what may seem to have been a wrong. However, the bottom line is still - the company you are talking about is registered, they made it with what they have! :agree1:

The wrong lies probably not as much with the Quality Policy or the documented system as it does with the auditor who chose to look the other way :notme: or elected to sit in the conference room and drink coffee for the whole registration audit. ;) In addition, it is pretty difficult to call something good or bad if no one notices it anyway. (Does the falling tree make a sound if no one is there to hear it?) Both good and bad are in the eyes of the beholder. If no one beholds it then you have no good or bad.

The only person to notice the policy you are talking about thus far has been you. You have noticed it because you have chosen this line of toil as your life's challenge. Your personal convictions go beyond the certificate on the wall. Inherently you want the reason for the certificate to be legitimate. My guess is that not another person in the company you are talking about could care less about what the words say or do not say; :rolleyes: just make sure the ISO auditor buys it.

Sometimes that is not all that bad either. I know many companies who are doing the right things and are aggressive as well as progressive and make a good product but their policy is no better or worse or different than the one we have all been discussing for the past week. Performance and results must carry a higher priority than do the words that structure our approach. The policy has no power if not acknowledged.

I am in your position as well. I go through the challenge of reviewing, fixing, and convincing over and over again. Words, words that are dictated by the standards, that's all it is. I have learned to concentrate on the actual output, the performance and results, well before I do the words. Intent before content!

Good luck on your re-write project. Do your best, as I am sure you have many times before and will again, maybe many times again. Make it agree with ISO, as if anyone cares, or even knows, anyway. Your greatest work will more likely go unnoticed but it is an existential accomplishment to just have done it.:yes:
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#57
Good luck on your re-write project. Do your best, as I am sure you have many times before and will again, maybe many times again. Make it agree with ISO, as if anyone cares, or even knows, anyway. Your greatest work will more likely go unnoticed but it is an existential accomplishment to just have done it.:yes:
A nice breath of fresh air to a discussion which sometimes strays into "my way is better than yours."

Maybe we all need to take a "Zen moment" to get ready to enjoy the coming weekend and leave the baggage of "the job" where it belongs - at the job!
 
R

ralphsulser

#58
Maybe we all need to take a "Zen moment" to get ready to enjoy the coming weekend and leave the baggage of "the job" where it belongs - at the job!
Wes, this is a point well taken. I am going to be on vacation all next week.
Heading up to north central Ohio to visit with family.
I don't think I will be doing anything to remind me of ISO9000/TS16949, audits, and document control for the duration.
 
F

fireonce

#59
Re: Is this one of the worst policy statements you have seen???

Yeah, it's really bad, but i have seen much worst than this.
 
Y

yogindernath

#60
Hi all,
started at my new job on monday just gone.
Have been through the Quality Manual and am fairly sure that I'm going to scrap it and completely re-write it! (yes it is that bad)
Just for your perusal is the existing (for now) Quality Policy. I think that it could possibly be the worst one I have read. It was written by a consultant who came in to get us ISO registered - he succeeded but as of yet I'm not sure how.
See what you think.....
Hi,

I feel this is a mechanical way of cramping up all standard jargons in a Quality Policy with an hope to satisfy the client company in a hurry.
 
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