Is TQM (Total Quality Management) Dead?

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#1
TQM (Total Quality Management) Thoughts

From: "mary forck"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: TQM is too harrrrdddddd....
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:26:02 -0600
Organization: Posted via Supernews

Interesting.

I differ with your definition of TQM being controlling. The definition of empowerment we use is "giving the employees the authority and knowledge to make decisions that will enable them to do their jobs better".

We are a state government department, obviously not manufacturing. TQM, quality, etc. means throwing out the red tape, allowing employees to develop programs without micro-management, moving away from government and to a private sector model. It means -- the bottom line = the best results possible for citizens; controlling costs, reducing cycle time, getting rid of unnecessary work.

After 6 years, I've not heard one complaint that TQM is controlling. Just the opposite. If a manager moves away from empowerment, there are many complaints from his/her employees. We are gaining a reputation as "one of the best state departments for people to work".

-------------------------------

From: "KTORPE"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: TQM is too harrrrdddddd....
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:16:09 +0100
Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde

l skrev i meddelelsen ...
>Jan,
>>
>> I agree with you on your points and agree with some of the feed back you
>> have had, in that reading is important. In my research on Employee
>> Involvement for my MBA paper the TQM drive is purely a control mechanism
>> that holds Taylorist values.

What is this? Are we back to marxism and the objective goals of the working class?:)

I think that most companies and managers misunderstand the consept of TQM as a tool to improve productivity (results). Maybe that is why you reach the conclusion that TQM is a control mechanism. For me and the people I work with, it is primarely a question of how PEOPLE develops as individuals using their creativity. Our goal is to descripe the creative organisation and then to "walk the talk". Actualy we are doing it by studying children as their minds have not yet been destroyed by to much conventional wisdom. This leads to my question to the group:

Does anyone know how to set up qoals for teamwork? How can the process be evaluated?

regards

Kasper Torpe

-------------------------------------

Reply-To: "Colin Lloyd Williams"
From: "Colin Lloyd Williams"
Subject: Re: TQM is too harrrrdddddd....
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:17:26 -0000
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality

I've been looking at the replies to my litter observation as TQM functioning as a controlling mechanism and truly I seem to be in the minority as to the effectiveness of the system.. :) I guess the best thing is to mix one thing with another and make a hybrid version or the organisation that works. However, the HRM model at Toyota in the UK and the quality framework at the plant is typical of a fast moving production system where truly the process worker is the king.

But like all kings it's structured with ceremony and pageant to the point of chastisement. Let me give you an example, The process of JIT hinges on the Frodist principle of chroicity; where intense work pressure coerces the employee to fully conform to the processes needs with no slack. Tight, up to the second team work is essential as fluctuations in the synchronised flow process causes massive disruption downstream and ultimately threatens all the tenants of the TQM philosophy; at this point the much banded about term "autonomy" and "empowerment" appear to become cosmetic.

Claiming that employees in this process are empowered surely must be misleading to the term empowerment where genuine managers are trying to instil this culture, because to really empower Toyota's people with the true meaning of empowerment would render the system under threat from divergence and set a new non quality standard of Sigma 6M. All jokes aside, how do you empower people who operate in a herringbone process set-up where split second timing is all the creative thought you have, I am amused with organisations such as Toyota who say that they value empowerment and Kanban, but how can it be when you are recruited as a robot in place of a robot and as empowered as a robot.....?

Please give me your thoughts,

Colin...... :))

mary forck wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Interesting.
>
> I differ with your definition of TQM being controlling. The definition of
> empowerment we use is "giving the employees the authority and knowledge to
> make decisions that will enable them to do their jobs better".
>
> We are a state government department, obviously not manufacturing. TQM,
> quality, etc. means throwing out the red tape, allowing employees to
develop
> programs without micro-management, moving away from government and to a
> private sector model. It means -- the bottom line = the best results
> possible for citizens; controlling costs, reducing cycle time, getting rid
> of unnecessary work.
>
> After 6 years, I've not heard one complaint that TQM is controlling. Just
> the opposite. If a manager moves away from empowerment, there are many
> complaints from his/her employees. We are gaining a reputation as "one of
> the best state departments for people to work".

-------------------------------------

From: "Jacques D. Vandersleyen"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: TQM is too harrrrdddddd....
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:50:29 GMT
Organization: Sympatico


KTORPE a Ècrit dans le message :
[email protected]

> What is this? Are we back to marxism and the objective goals of the working
> class?:)

Should we said Stakhanovism? There is great similitudes between certain way of implementing TQM and "Uncle" Stalin way of management

Or you are completely involved in the TQM revolution or you are a traitor to our cause and must be punished (following Skinner's reinforcement theory). That why, may be most of the authors start talking about re-taylorism on management. Best regards

--
SincËres salutations
Jacques D. Vandersleyen
607, rue des ruisseaux
Pintendre; G6C 1N1
QuÈbec, Canada

Courriel

---------------------------------------

From: "Jacques D. Vandersleyen"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: TQM is too harrrrdddddd....
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:50:29 GMT
Organization: Sympatico


KTORPE a Ècrit dans le message :
[email protected]

> What is this? Are we back to marxism and the objective goals of the working
> class?:)

Should we said Stakhanovism? There is great similitudes between certain way of implementing TQM and "Uncle" Stalin way of management.

Or you are completely involved in the TQM revolution or you are a traitor to our cause and must be punished (following Skinner's reinforcement theory). That why, may be most of the authors start talking about re-taylorism on management. Best regards

--
SincËres salutations
Jacques D. Vandersleyen
607, rue des ruisseaux
Pintendre; G6C 1N1
QuÈbec, Canada

Courriel

---------------------------

From: "KTORPE"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: TQM, why, and why not
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:35:08 +0100
Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde

The Why's:

1. People: Do it because it will increase the well being of the people in the organisation. That should be the driving force. Let people use their creativity on the workplace and not only in the freetime.

The difficulties starts when you say how?

We have a simple yet very logical approach which we call the creative work method: See - think - plan - do - see (It is not the PDCA circle!) The important fase is the first. To be able to see things as they realy are not letting your personal opinions affect it. We call it facts. Facts should always be the starting point on any dessision making process. People begin to realize, that when they base dessisions on facts, two things happens: A. It is possible to reach consensus in the think-fase (without having someone or something to force it) and B. The result that are achieved are of much higher quality.

When you start to work this way I guarantee you that you will reach the goals whatever they may be.

The Why not:

1. Dont do it because you want to obtain a certificate or an award
2. Dont do it because you want to get more sattisfied customers
3. Dont do it because the tools (Kanban, JIT etc.) looks nifty. If the entire organisation work according to the above work method you will eventualy work out your own tools, that are much more relevant as they again, are based on facts about your organisation, your customers and your environment.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#2
Is TQM Dead?

From: "PaulR"
Newsgroups: misc.industry.quality
Subject: Re: Does it really pay?
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:08:18 GMT

Maybe I'm a burnout case, but here goes:

First, the basic principles of TQM are, IMHO, definately sound. So are the principles of all of the alphabet soup that keeps coming down the pike. SPC, TQM, PxP, 6Sigma, CRM, QFD, BPR, and, for all I know, EIEIO. Not only are they sound, but if you don't interpret any of them too narrowly, they're all the same. They all offer the same potential benefit: higher quality, lower cost, improved customer satisfaction, lower scrap/rework rates, etc. etc.

But every one of these requires management commitment, management investment, and time. Unfortunately, financial management is focused on the next quarter. Managers are focused on keeping short-term costs down (including head-count), and they have the attention span of six year olds. In my company, we've calculated an MTBF (mean-time-between-fads) of about 30 months.

Consider what this means: Every one of these programs has the costs front-loaded, (training, consultants, meetings) with the benefits coming on the back end. A short MTBF means that companies are perpetually standing the costs of these programs and never reaping the benefits. Some managers seem to get tired of the whole thing and go back to traditional inspection quality plans (along with beating up on people when these plans don't work). Others embrace each new Acronym with a religious ferver, hoping that something, ANYTHING, will be THE ANSWER. None of them are willing to make the long term commitments needed to make any of these programs succeed.

Oh yes. The "enablers" are the consultants who promote each of these variants as "the next big thing." After 24 months when consultant-lead training starts to let up, the consultants go back to their trainers for six months. At the end of the 30 month MTBF period, they're back with a new "next big thing."

Ah well. Keep the faith.
Paul R


"JRT" wrote
> It may be the result of the natural evolution of quality sciences. The
> principals of TQM are sound, but now company's must begin to go after the
> meat and potatoes, and tools like six-sigma and Lean Manufacturing and QS
> are taking over.
>
> Just a thought!
>
> JRT
>
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------
> >EDITORIAL
> >
> >A sharp decline in the popularity of TQM has been confirmed by a recent
> >survey of the use of management techniques by companies in the USA and
> >Europe. Are companies being put off by the sheer volume of paperwork
> >generated by the exercise or does this result from serious doubts about the
> >potential value added of quality initiatives?
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Best regards
> >--
> >Jacques D. Vandersleyen
> >607, rue des ruisseaux
> >Pintendre; QuÈbec,
> >G6C 1N1; Canada
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#3
Marc,

Probably not dead, but perhaps in hibernation.

Will 6-Sigma, or any other management philosophy do any better? I think that your post has it summed up about right. Essentially, unless Senior Management is ready for fundamental Transformation, one requiring long term focus, all the consultants, software solutions, etc, etc will do not good.

Regards,

Kevin
 
B

BWoods

#4
Originally posted by Marc Smith:

> It may be the result of the natural evolution of quality sciences. The
> principals of TQM are sound, but now company's must begin to go after the
> meat and potatoes, and tools like six-sigma and Lean Manufacturing and QS
> are taking over.[/b]
While at first thought, Paul's comments seem to resonate, I ultimately have to agree more with JRT's.

If you've been in the QA world for long, you know we've made lots of changes for the better. We have gone from using telescopes to microscopes for quality improvement. A number of years ago I was a hero for reducing return rates from 7% to about 2.5%. Now just about any company would kill people for having a 2.5% return rate!

Quality continues to evolve and the "easy" improvements are long since gone.

It isn't easy, but it is a lot better!
 
R

Roger Eastin

#5
I dunno. I think life has been too good in the 90's for most corporations, so TQM (being front-end loaded) goes into hibernation until the going gets tough again and managers start scrambling for ways to be competetive. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll bet the next round of "good TQM" will happen during or at the end of the next recession.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#6
Originally posted by Roger Eastin:

...I'll bet the next round of "good TQM" will happen during or at the end of the next recession.
Probably right on the mark.
 
S
#7
The use of the phrase TQM certainly appears to be waning. I notice that much more emphasis is being given to 'six sigma' and it seems to be selling to a bottom line nerve to justify itself. Another plus point is the incentives/rewards talked about for reducing variation - greed works or is it MBO fails? Some TQM programmes had been claimed to exploit employees and not share rewards - but then TQ isn't meant to be divisive but uniting. Six sigma also avoids the word quality in its title cunningly and that could help 'total quality' strangely. (aside - can i ask does anyone own the phrase six sigma ; is it free to use by the profession?)

I hope i don't see the use of tqc/cwqc/tqm /tq die because it's such a big part of the modern development of quality. We may need to support it so it isn't flamed as old hat. For me part of its weakness - no one model - will keep the concept strong for the future.

It is a shame that fad and TQM are associated, since the first is fast,short,..style-no-substance, whereas the latter is slower,longer,deeper. Business without total quality? now that won't last!

regards
skyc
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#8
Originally posted by Roger Eastin:
I dunno. I think life has been too good in the 90's for most corporations, so TQM (being front-end loaded) goes into hibernation until the going gets tough again and managers start scrambling for ways to be competetive. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll bet the next round of "good TQM" will happen during or at the end of the next recession.
I believe you are right Roger! Recessions are cyclical events, as is the rebirth and waning of quality programs. As you are well aware of, most of the 'new' Quality practices are 40 to 50 years old.

As the success of organizations in the 80's waned ahead of the Recession of the 90's, organizations began to scramble for a new 'fixer'. Enter TQM. As the organization began to emerge from the Recession, TQM began to wane, and ushered in a sad return to the old tried and true practices. Time will tell I suppose, but I believe that Quality programs (or programs in general) 'die' and emerge in a cyclical pattern.

Regards,

Kevin
 
S
#9
I agree what is being said about cycles - and history itself is often said to repeat. Certainly when recession hits competition increases. Reasons given for 'quality introductions' often cite using it as a differentiator against the competition. It also becomes associated as a kind of tool to do things better so in-turn reducing costs quickly, hmmm?

But, I do have to disagree that TQM suddenly appeared. This seems to imply it developed for that point-in-time or was created spontaneously. This is not fair or correct. TQM is part of the development of much previous thinking - as has been indicated in the same discussion...perhaps starting 50-60 years past. This is supported for example Feigenbaum published TQC (~40 years ago) And lots of others, East and West, have also argued and contributed to what is the concept commonly known as TQM is the West.

What i'm concerned about is that it's the job of fads to suddenly appear. Ideas like total quality are different because they contain substance from many working hard over time, contributing to the concept that effective 'quality' isn't isolated quality.

kind regards
skyc






[This message has been edited by skyc (edited 08 August 2000).]
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#10
Fads are born out of a need for a quick fix. Short term in nature, they do not possess the power to go the long haul. Quality is a long term endeavor. No quick answers, it requires long term thinking and valued contributions.

I feel your concern. Too many folks looking for the quick answers that they leap from one program to the next without consideration of the whole. Doomed to multiple failures and mediocre results. Some are satisfied this way. Amazing! When an organization begins to accept mediocrity, the war has been lost (IMHO)!

Regards,

Kevin
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D TQM (Total Quality Management) Diagram Software Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 4
R Total Quality Management (TQM) in the Aerospace Industry AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
C ASQ Quality Management Journal Vol. 17 Total Quality Management (TQM) Comments Wanted Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 8
Ajit Basrur The "Pillars of Total Quality Management" (TQM) Presentation - Any ideas Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 11
C Total Quality Management (TQM) - We upgraded from QS-9000 to 16949, 14001, and 17025 ISO 17025 related Discussions 9
T TQM (Total Quality Management) Team Close Out Process Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 2
C The Concept of TQM (Total Quality Management) in the USA Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 5
G History of TQM? Where did Total Quality Management come from? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 18
M Seeking TQM (Total Quality Management) Books Recommendations Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 9
Q ISO 9000 and TQM (Total Quality Management) in Small Companies Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 11
Marc The Paradox of Toyotaism vs. TQM (Total Quality Management) Philosophy, Gurus, Innovation and Evolution 9
V Definition TPM (Total Productive Maintenance) vs. TQM (Total Quality Management) Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 18
Marc Total Quality Management - Is TQM On Your Radar? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 46
Marc TQM (Total Quality Management) - A Starter Thread Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 23
Y TQM Implementation in Facilities Department Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
M How Organizations maintain Six Sigma and TQM in their Operations ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
T What are the Core Concepts of TQM? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 6
S MBA Finance major & HR minor job opportunity in TQM field Career and Occupation Discussions 1
T What is difference between a Corporate Quality Manual and TQM? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M Help with research - impact of TQM on employee motivation in working environment Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 1
L Road Map for TQM Implementation Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 11
A Difference between six sigma and TQM approach Six Sigma 18
Q Quality Program: Which could be the best for a Company? EFQM, Six Sigma, TQM, others? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
G TQM Practice (What is the difference between QC Story & PDCA?) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A I need help on Six sigma and TQM - Quality Management course discussion question Six Sigma 3
G Deming Prize (TQM Implementation award) vs. TS 16949 Compliance IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
N TQM Software suggestions wanted Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 12
G Short TQM training - Choosing of most important points Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
R Six Sigma vs. TQM - How to Select and What are their Differences? Six Sigma 2
T Diagram of Management & Business Functions Relationships for TQM Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 7
J Difference between a Goal and an Objective within TQM Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 5
F Want to know more on Methods and Tools for quality assurance (8d, TQM and Poka Yoke) Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 3
N TQM Model as a 'House' Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 2
D How to answer customer?s TQM test paper? Philosophy, Gurus, Innovation and Evolution 2
C Explain to me the differences between ISO9000 and TQM ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
R TQM Project - Books on important TQM books The Reading Room 5
B TQM successes in public schools? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 10
V Deming - Drive Out fear - How to Implement a TQM Environment Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
V TQM - Implementing Continual Improvement of Product, Processes and System Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
T What are the differences between TQM and TQM 2 (continuous profit improvement) Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 2
S Barriers to TQM implementation in Construction Industry - M Level Dissertation Topic Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 13
T Online Master Degree in TQM - Any good university reviews or recommendations? Professional Certifications and Degrees 3
V How does a TQM environment relate to a 5 stars hotel - Hotel Management Service Industry Specific Topics 2
A Is ISO enough to satisfy these TQM approval questions? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
P Looking for subject matter for thesis about TQM, ISO9000, TS19649 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
N Distance Learning - Quality Management and TQM - Seeking Recommendations Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
T Mini 5S - Implementing TQM - Seeking Suggestions Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 16
R TQM, Standards or Configuration Management Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
V Teaching Quality! The History of Quality (from Artisans to TQM) Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 37
J Is ISO 9001 more focused on production and TQM more on Management? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom