Is TS 16949 going to be Obsoleted by 2008?

[20110108 Request]

Per Joe Bransky, at the FMEA rollout in Huron, Ohio: TS 16949 will be revised to only include the ISO 9001 revisions. He went on to say that 16949will remain a Technical Specification and will not go through the process needed to create an International Standard. This latter took approval from the ISO General Scretariat. (My thought is that this gives the OMEs the authority to amend TS as they eventually see fit.)

The above is about as much horse's mouth that you will ever have. So, don't let any auditors or consultants play games with you.

 

[Howard Atkins]

No!

See this
# ISO/TS 16949:2009 Transition Process Posted 01/07/2009

from IATF

 

[debyang]

Thanks a lot for the most updated TS 16949 information!
But shouldn't the standard be upgraded to a normal ISO standard instead of still keeping TS-title with it per ISO's own rule?

 

[Howard Atkins]

The difference is that the TS belongs not to ISO but rather to the industry.
Apart from the mouthful what difference does it make.

 

[vanputten]

From the ISO/IEC Directives, Part 2, Rules for the structure and drafting of International Standards, here is the defintion of a Technical Specification. Based on the defintion, it sure is an interesting question that Debyang raises. I wonder why TS 16949 is not ready to become a Internation standard?

Howard, what do you mean by stating that TS 16949 belongs to the industry?

3.4
Technical Specification
TS
document published by ISO or IEC for which there is the future possibility of agreement on an International Standard, but for which at present
• the required support for approval as an International Standard cannot be obtained,
• there is doubt on whether consensus has been achieved,
• the subject matter is still under technical development, or
• there is another reason precluding immediate publication as an International Standard
NOTE 1 The content of a Technical Specification, including its annexes, may include requirements.
NOTE 2 A Technical Specification is not allowed to conflict with an existing International Standard.
NOTE 3 Competing Technical Specifications on the same subject are permitted.
NOTE 4 Prior to mid-1999, Technical Specifications were designated as Technical Reports of type 1 or 2.

 

[AndyN]

The IATF/AIAG won't relinquish control to a non-automotive group within the ISO structure? Possibly? When it was QS they maintained control over content, but it wasn't a 'standard', conversely TS is an 'ISO' but they'd technically have to give up 'authority for content etc.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I wonder why TS 16949 is not ready to become a Internation standard?

Probably due to the fact that, for it to become a full fledged ISO Standard, the associated bureaucracy and lengthy stages of review/commenting/balloting are not in line with the IATF need for expedited review and publishing.

Just my guess.

 

[debyang]

Probably due to the fact that, for it to become a full fledged ISO Standard, the associated bureaucracy and lengthy stages of review/commenting/balloting are not in line with the IATF need for expedited review and publishing.

Just my guess.

Sidney:

What a good guess, I'm with you.

There is a statement in ISO/TS 16949 Foreward section quoted as follows:

An ISO/PAS or ISO/TS is reviewed after three years with a view to deciding whether it should be confirmed for a further three years, revised to become an International Standard, or withdrawn. In the case of a confirmed ISO/PAS or ISO/TS, it is reviewed again after six years at which time it has to be either transposed into an International Standard or withdrawn.

The ISO/TS 16949:2002 is the second edition, a confirmed one, and now is 2009 , already six years.....

As quality people, we must understand that exception does exist everywhere.
This is real life, is'nt it?

 

[Howard Atkins]

Howard, what do you mean by stating that TS 16949 belongs to the industry?

From TS

The content inside the boxed text of this document is ISO 9001:2000 text and is protected by the above copyright statement. "ISO copyright office " me
The text outside the boxes has been originated by the International Automotive Task Force. Copyright for this text is held by ANFIA, CCFA/FIEV, SMMT, VDA (see below) and the car manufacturers DaimlerChrysler, Ford Motor Company, General Motors Corp.
Neither this Technical Specification nor any extract from it may be reproduced in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, photocopying, recording or otherwise without prior written permission being secured.
Requests for permission to reproduce and/or translate non-boxed text should be addressed to one of the addresses below:
International Automotive Oversight Bureau (IAOB/USA)
Associazione Nazionale Fra Industrie Automobilistiche (ANFIA/Italy)
Comité des Constructeurs Français d'Automobiles (CCFA/France)
Fédération des Industries des Équipements pour Véhicules (FIEV/France)
Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT/UK)
Verband der Automobilindustrie - Qualitätsmanagement Center (VDA-QMC/Germany)
and

ISO/TS 16949:2002 was prepared by the International Automotive Task Force (IATF) and Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, Inc. (JAMA), with support from ISO/TC 176, Quality management and quality assurance.

my emphasis

I think this shows that TS belongs to the industry

 

[Audit Monkey]

With the weakness in the American automotive industry, I have wondered if VDA would finally win their rumored battle to replace TS with VDA. Anybody hear any rumors on this?