Is TS 16949 going to be Obsoleted by 2008?

[Sidney Vianna]

I am attending a TS workshop today here in So Cal and Mr. Bransky (from GM and IATF) confirmed that the IATF has a special agreement with ISO that they will keep TS 16949 as a Technical Specification for an extra year after ISO 9001:2000 gets revised. Since ISO 9001:2009 is just an amendment, TS 16949 might exist until 2013 or 2014.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

This might be a red herring but there are no training sessions for 3rd party auditors scheduled by AIAG, SMMT and ANFIA (Italy), I could not find the German or French positions
http://iaob.org/training/16949_auditor.html

This seems to be strange but the way in which registrars was limited was also restrictive.
In the end there will not be the man hours to audit the candidates.

I was told that someone crunched some numbers, and determined we have 30% more TS auditors than needed, for the current TS population of companies. Consequently, they are being tough in the recert audits, because they need to weed out ineffective auditors. However, I know a number of very competent auditors who had to retest once or twice. So, the intent and the reality do not match (imagine that?).

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I was informed today by a very reiliable source (who shall remain nameless) that in effect the IAOB has indicated the demise of TS16949 in 2006.

Ralph, just a reminder for you to move this source from the reliable category...

Actually, during the workshop I attended yesterday, Mr. Bransky mentioned that data shows that TS certified suppliers performance is much better than similar QS-9000 suppliers of a decade ago. He mentioned that average defect rates for TS certified suppliers are in the 10-25 DPPM, approaching 6 sigma levels (his words). So, all in all, it looks like the TS subscribing OEMs are "happy" with TS and how it is improving the automotive supply chain. Thus, any rumor of a TS demise is totally unfounded.

 

[ralphsulser]

Ralph, just a reminder for you to move this source from the reliable category...

Actually, during the workshop I attended yesterday, Mr. Bransky mentioned that data shows that TS certified suppliers performance is much better than similar QS-9000 suppliers of a decade ago. He mentioned that average defect rates for TS certified suppliers are in the 10-25 DPPM, approaching 6 sigma levels (his words). So, all in all, it looks like the TS subscribing OEMs are "happy" with TS and how it is improving the automotive supply chain. Thus, any rumor of a TS demise is totally unfounded.

Sidney,

Well, the reliable source did not renew their TS16949 auditor certification and discountinued auditing for our registrar. So, apparently it may have been erroneously passed to that person. I am sure that they were sincere, albeit incorrect.
It does seem that now TS is redundant if you are a tier 1 to Ford, and have to comply with all their specifics including Q1. This is realy overkill plus all their CSRs for QMS and PPAP, plus MMOG.
I have not been able to participate much on the Cove due to audits and new computer systems firewalls.
I have had 4 QMS audits in the last 4 weeks. Tuesday Oct. 24-Dana SSA with a Dana STE ..we scored a 96 out of 100, then Thursday Oct. 26 a Ford Heat Treat STE was in to audit our curent system and informed us that we are now required to comply with QCI-9 in addition to WHTX. We scored 160. Nov. 13,14,15,16.-4 day audit by 2 QA men from our corporate headquarters in Japan. Scored a 3.3 out of a 4.0. This week Nov. 28 and 29 a 2 day TS16949 semi-annual registrar surveillance audit..were only 2 minor finding and those were related to paper work on control plans. "Hey..were talking audits here" (Marc's old phrase) This doesn't count the other 3 previous visits by Ford to do a Q1 assessment for 3 days, and 2 additional trips to approve PPAPs to Ford.
It really seems odd that we have been making the same parts for 5 years for Visteon and only had to comply with TS16949 and some CSRs, and now all of a sudden we become a tier1 by default we are not worthy unless we comply with all these other requirements.
Now in addition to all that I have a new boss who knows zilch about TS16949 or Q1, and barely speaks English, and hasn't spoken to me in 5 years, and my old boss is now in Sales. I turned in for a vacation day, and he said from now on he wants a weeks notice if I want a vacation day I have 3 weeks coming and will be lucky to use them.
Oh well, maybe there will be a better oppotunity some where.
Maybe it has something to do with our plant located only 80 miles from Myrtle Beach

 

[Barahir]

Mentioned earlier in the thread is that AIAG isn't offering lead auditor courses for TS anymore. I don't know if this is the course that was being referred to, but looking at their website it seems they're offering the ISO Lead Auditor course with TS Supplier Auditor Certification 13 times between now and the end of 2007.

http://www.aiag.org/education/trainingindex.cfm?classcode=LEADAU

 

[Raffy]

If that would be the case, what would happen to all company that was been certified in TS16949. Why is it so short that TS16949 be obsoleted? What could be the reason? What would be the equivalent certification for this after?
Best regards,
raffy

 

[Sidney Vianna]

If that would be the case, what would happen to all company that was been certified in TS16949. Why is it so short that TS16949 be obsoleted? What could be the reason? What would be the equivalent certification for this after?
Best regards,
raffy

Looks like you DID NOT read the thread. Had you read it, you would have not asked these questions.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

If that would be the case, what would happen to all company that was been certified in TS16949. Why is it so short that TS16949 be obsoleted? What could be the reason? What would be the equivalent certification for this after?
Best regards,
raffy

Relax. There is no substance to the rumor. Read this whole thread, it will give you more balance.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Mentioned earlier in the thread is that AIAG isn't offering lead auditor courses for TS anymore. I don't know if this is the course that was being referred to, but looking at their website it seems they're offering the ISO Lead Auditor course with TS Supplier Auditor Certification 13 times between now and the end of 2007.

http://www.aiag.org/education/trainingindex.cfm?classcode=LEADAU

As I mentioned earlier, they feel they have more than enough TS auditors in the pipeline. There is little demand to increase the number.

 

[rjkozak]

I heard at a meeting in Detroit that TS will not be revised until 2010.
However with IAOB's SI's, FAQ's, TS rules, and OEM CSR changes ...