Is TS 16949 going to be Obsoleted by 2008?

[vanputten]

The entire project of changing the words in ISO 9001 is to improve the meaning and NOT to change any requirement. I repeat ..... NOT to change any requirements. So the question about compliance is invalid. If the words change but the requriments do not, a previously complaint process / system will still be complaint. TS and ISO 9001 may have different words printed on the pages, but the requirements and impact on compliance should be zero.

All of the above assumes that all changes made to ISO 9001:2000 do not impact the actual requirements.

 

[ralphsulser]

The entire project of changing the words in ISO 9001 is to improve the meaning and NOT to change any requirement. I repeat ..... NOT to change any requirements. So the question about compliance is invalid. If the words change but the requriments do not, a previously complaint process / system will still be complaint. TS and ISO 9001 may have different words printed on the pages, but the requirements and impact on compliance should be zero.

All of the above assumes that all changes made to ISO 9001:2000 do not impact the actual requirements.

What about the specific requirement which is new that specifies that the management rep must be a member of management? Some places have coordinators, and technicians as management reps.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

What about the specific requirement which is new that specifies that the management rep must be a member of management? Some places have coordinators, and technicians as management reps.

Is it really new?

5.5.2 Management representative​

Top management shall appoint a member of management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority that includes...

5.5.2 Management representative

Top management shall appoint a member of the organization’s management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority that includes....​

Most auditors working for CB's don't get hung up with titles, but pay attention to the organization authority level the management rep "seems" to have.

 

[vanputten]

My last posting "assumes that all changes made to ISO 9001:2000 do not impact the actual requirements."

If a requirements change to ISO 9001 does happen, then I am not sure how the conformity assessment people will handle that.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Is it really new?
Most auditors working for CB's don't get hung up with titles, but pay attention to the organization authority level the management rep "seems" to have.

Sidney,

We have discussed this in the past and the general consensus is that Management, is the opposite of worker. White collar -Blue collar,
this would appear to be in agreement with ISO 9001:2000 - Interpretations- Clause 5.5.2 - RFI-027 which agrees that the MR does not need to be a member of the organization’s management.

It is not a matter of being hung up with titles it is a matter of what is actually meant and if the intention is to correct the interpretation

 

[Sidney Vianna]

What about the specific requirement which is new that specifies that the management rep must be a member of management? Some places have coordinators, and technicians as management reps.

It is not a matter of being hung up with titles it is a matter of what is actually meant and if the intention is to correct the interpretation

Howard, I am not sure if you agree or disagree with my previous post. The issue @ hand is not the title of manager, but the authority to ensure that processes are implemented and maintained. As long as someone, working as a quality coordinator, can prove to an auditor that s/he has organizational authority over the VP of Sales to stop the practice of selling products that can not be delivered within the customer expected delivery date, no problems.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Howard, I am not sure if you agree or disagree with my previous post. The issue @ hand is not the title of manager, but the authority to ensure that processes are implemented and maintained. As long as someone, working as a quality coordinator, can prove to an auditor that s/he has organizational authority over the VP of Sales to stop the practice of selling products that can not be delivered within the customer expected delivery date, no problems.

I agree but unfortunately we both know those who the literal meaning is more important than the spirit.
The situation where there needs to be interpretations is not healthy and it is better to think twice about writing what you mean and not others saying that you mean what you write

 

[ralphsulser]

We just finished our semi-annual TS16949 2 day registrar surveillance audit.
Guess what....ZERO non-conformances.
Looks like I'll continue as management rep for a while regardless of title.

It was close, and he was ready to write one, but I found the elusive customer document. I knew we had it because I printed it some time ago. The guy who used it for his files took it with him when he left the company.
It was in a folder in another folder in my documents.
Everyone here contributed and I thanked them all for their team work.

I will sleep better tonight

 

[Wes Bucey]

Congratulations! Take tomorrow off - tell the bosses I said it was OK

 

[Helmut Jilling]

We just finished our semi-annual TS16949 2 day registrar surveillance audit.
Guess what....ZERO non-conformances.
Looks like I'll continue as management rep for a while regardless of title.

It was close, and he was ready to write one, but I found the elusive customer document. I knew we had it because I printed it some time ago. The guy who used it for his files took it with him when he left the company.
It was in a folder in another folder in my documents.
Everyone here contributed and I thanked them all for their team work.

I will sleep better tonight

Good for you, but what about the option to scan such docs and put them on a proper folder on your server? Electronic files are less likely to get lost, and easier to locate.