Is TS 16949 going to be Obsoleted by 2008?

[Stijloor]

Re: TS 16949 will not be obsoleted by 2008

Amazing how some rumours persist over a long period of time....

With an apology to Mark Twain:

"The Rumors of My ISO/TS 16949:2002's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated."

Stijloor.

 

[Marc]

I blame the Smithers auditor for starting the rumour back in 2005

The Smithers auditor told this client they should NOT pursue TS 16949 registration because supposedly in 2006 the TC committee is "...expected to meet and announce the demise of TS 16949...".

I blame the Smithers auditor for starting the rumour back in 2005...

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: I blame the Smithers auditor for starting the rumour back in 2005

I blame the Smithers auditor for starting the rumour back in 2005...

I never did trust Smithers.

 

[20110108 Request]

As a member of the US TAG to ISO/TC 176, I can tell you the TS will be voted upon to become an International Standard one year after the publication of the 4th edition of ISO 9001. An IAOB member is on the TAG and updates us at every meeting on the IATF's intentions.

 

[Stijloor]

As a member of the US TAG to ISO/TC 176, I can tell you the TS will be voted upon to become an International Standard one year after the publication of the 4th edition of ISO 9001. An IAOB member is on the TAG and updates us at every meeting on the IATF's intentions.

Hello Bear41,

Please cite the formal document and its location. Many rumors and half-truths were started by hear-say and extremely poor communication. You could do us Covers a great favor by providing the actual meeting results/minutes of the US TAG to ISO/TC 176. I can't assume it's that secret....

Thank you.

Stijloor.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Please cite the formal document and its location. Many rumors and half-truths were started by hear-say and extremely poor communication. You could do us Covers a great favor by providing the actual meeting results/minutes of the US TAG to ISO/TC 176. I can't assume it's that secret....

I am not sure there is any document to be "shown" or any minutes of meeting to be disclosed. The person he is referring to is probably Mr. Joe Bransky. As I already mentioned in this thread, I attended a workshop earlier in the year with Mr. Bransky, where he indicated the future of the TS document.

From what I gather, one of the reasons ISO 9001:2008 will not bring any changes, just clarifications to existing documents, is in part due to pressure from the Automotive stakeholders. Even though TS 16949 latest revision has been in place since 2002, you have to remember that QS-9000 (based on the 3rd Edition of ISO 9001) was still valid late 2006. So, the automotive supply chain had to cope with both QS and TS until "recently". Now that the whole supply chain (of the subscribing organizations) are aligned with TS16949, the Automotive OEMs wanted some "stability" of the requirements contained in the Standard.

TS is here to stay. It might turn into an IS (International Standard) in 2009, but the only difference will be the revised ISO 9001:2008 text with it's new "clearer" wording.

 

[Stijloor]

I am not sure there is any document to be "shown" or any minutes of meeting to be disclosed. The person he is referring to is probably Mr. Joe Bransky. As I already mentioned in this thread, I attended a workshop earlier in the year with Mr. Bransky, where he indicated the future of the TS document.

From what I gather, one of the reasons ISO 9001:2008 will not bring any changes, just clarifications to existing documents, is in part due to pressure from the Automotive stakeholders. Even though TS 16949 latest revision has been in place since 2002, you have to remember that QS-9000 (based on the 3rd Edition of ISO 9001) was still valid late 2006. So, the automotive supply chain had to cope with both QS and TS until "recently". Now that the whole supply chain (of the subscribing organizations) are aligned with TS16949, the Automotive OEMs wanted some "stability" of the requirements contained in the Standard.

TS is here to stay. It might turn into an IS (International Standard) in 2009, but the only difference will be the revised ISO 9001:2008 text with it's new "clearer" wording.

Thank you Sidney,

Excellent points!

A few additional comments.

My (consulting/training) organization is a member of AIAG, I have been to quite a few conferences and had the pleasure to hear Mr. Joe Bransky and his OEM counterparts in person. I am fairly familiar with what's going on in "automotive supplier land", and have been very involved with the various transitions from ISO to QS to ISO/TS. But I would not make claims without supporting information. I think many of us here would not do that either.

As you are very well aware of, the automotive supplier industry has been inundated with changes and more changes in Customer-Specific requirements (CSR's), PPAP submission requirements, Special Process requirements, etc., and the end is not in sight....

You can imagine that automotive supply folks are very worried about the next darn thing coming down the IATF/IAOB/ISO-TS pike.... The concern about cost and resource impact is significant.

So if statements are made about any changes affecting the automotive supplier industry, those impacted are entitled to, as a minimum, a reference to a document, an authorized spokes person and a location where the info can be found.

Just my

Stijloor.

 

[20110108 Request]

Please email [email protected] for access to TAG minutes. I would encourage people in this Forum to nominate to be members of the TAG -- especially those of you who represnt industries affected by the ISO family of standards. We have too many consultants right now, myself included.

The reason cited above for "amendments" to ISO 9001, rather than a revision, is but one of the considerations taken into account. It was only a year ago that QS-9000 became obsolete. However, the most compelling reason for just clarification is that many organizations are still struggling with the Process Model concept. (Even though that may seem strange to most of you.)

 

[CQC Doug]

The latest I have heard from one of the Registrar's I work for as a 3rd party TS Auditor is that the 3rd Edition (ISO/TS 16949:2008) is scheduled for release in October 2008 and implementation in January 2009. In addition, new Rules are being proposed for Q1 2009 which will incorporate the SIs and FAQs and improve alignment with 17021. In a nutshell, it is not going away.


CQC Doug

 

[Stijloor]

The latest I have heard from one of the Registrar's I work for as a 3rd party TS Auditor is that the 3rd Edition (ISO/TS 16949:2008) is scheduled for release in October 2008 and implementation in January 2009. In addition, new Rules are being proposed for Q1 2009 which will incorporate the SIs and FAQs and improve alignment with 17021. In a nutshell, it is not going away.


CQC Doug

Hello Doug,

Can you cite the source, document, and location?
Not to be "picky", but our Fellow Covers appreciate references.

Stijloor.