Is "Zero Accidents" a realistic goal?

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#21
Here is my opinion:
First the goal is never to have a failure or an "accident". An accident / incident by definition is a failure but is the failure preventable?

Over long periods of time the goal of ZERO will never be met. Every system has opportunities for failures. Do you know of a 100% error free system or process that can NEVER fail? Impossible? 100% forever?

98% of all injuries are preventable. 2% are related to acts of God genetics and ergonomics (personal health). The 60 year old man who's body is worn out from poor wellness over weight and abusive life styles then claims his knees are worn out from walking on cement floors at work (not the fact that he is 100+ Lbs. over weight). 100% preventable but under the control of the employer?

So, the real questions are these. Prior to occurance of an incident did the organization take all reasonable steps to predict and prevent the incident? This 20+ year safety pro's hair on the back of my neck gets stiff when I hear a manager say "I knew that was going to happen sooner or latter" That is my opportunity for a serious heart to heart accountablitity discussion. "You are stating the incidnet was predictable "you saw it comming" and you did NOTHING more than wait and watch it happen? :mg:

A targetted reduction in severity and incidents frequency then key process metrics is more achievable than ZERO incidnets. Talk in the terms of preventable and predictable.

In the pure form every accident is preventable by avoudance - but the cold truth is every activity has some risk.

Most importantly; Humans make errors. Everyone. So any system that relies on a human to make a choice or take actions is open to error. (I have not met anyone who wanted to be injured or in pain)

Study 9/11 was the event predicatable? preventable?
You can not stop a sucidal bomber from killing themselves. You can set up barriers and reduce the severity of the incident to others. but they will kill themsleves and cause damage. Predicatable? Preventable?

Hope this helps?

Ken
Welcome to the Cove, Ken! A fine first post. :applause: Hope to see more of you here, ayuh!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
S

samsung

#22
Management types are famous for establishing "zero x" objectives and then being unwilling to spend any money towards achieving them. They think that saying "We strive for zero lost-time accidents" will perhaps make them look good to insurance companies and potential litigants.
Absolutely true. Most mission statements, framed in corporate boardrooms, are based on such wishful thinking, as "We strive for zero lost-time accidents" or 'Safety is our #1 priority & we can't accept anything above 'zero'." And most, if not all, have never ever achieved it yet they stick to their conviction without ever trying to know if it is acceptable to those who are supposed to achieve it.

One more factor that affects realization of such 'challenging' goals is the (wishful) 'assumption' that
All the employees are equally capable
What we delegate to accomplish is acceptable to everyone
All are committed to strive to achieve it and
All are competent and know how to achieve it.

Most human being are capable, committed and competent but the underlying fact is that all are not equal and it is where it becomes an ever challenging task to attain an absolute 'zero' status as far as 'accidents' are concerned. When the goals are unrealistic, people tend to avert, ignore & get demotivated which may adversely affect their performance in other areas as well.
 
#23
Hi !

Personally an objective regarding the number of accident is bad for two reasons:
- It is "reactive" but it should be "proactive" (otherwise it is not prevention, and we risk only to "mask" the accidents which arise).
- We forget to consider also health at work.

In our Occupational Health & Safety management we especially have to give ourselves proactifs objectives of occupational risks abolition or reduction !

Best regards.
 
D

DrM2u

#24
If I end the sentence after 2010 and actually achieved it, what would be the next step as part of one's endeavour to further improve the process. If it is stable & predictable at that level, one's next objective will obviously be to maintain & sustain the level one has already achieved.
Why not set the same goal for the next year, and the year after, and so on? It is one way of 'maintaining and sustaining' your performance. I am not sure how else you can further improve the goal of 0 accidents. Get -1 accidents?!? Now that I have to see! You can improve the overall safety program and performance by setting additional goals besides this one.
 
S

samsung

#25
Why not set the same goal for the next year, and the year after, and so on? It is one way of 'maintaining and sustaining' your performance. I am not sure how else you can further improve the goal of 0 accidents. Get -1 accidents?!? Now that I have to see! You can improve the overall safety program and performance by setting additional goals besides this one.
It is one thing to 'set' a goal and another to 'achieve' it and yet another to 'sustain' it. 'Setting' does not imply 'achieving' and/or 'sustaining'.

Further, it is possible to attain the goal for once but very hard to keep it up on that level year after year. Sustaining the 'Best Demonstrated Performance' is also a sort of 'accomplishment' (if not improvement)
 
D

DrM2u

#26
It is one thing to 'set' a goal and another to 'achieve' it and yet another to 'sustain' it. 'Setting' does not imply 'achieving' and/or 'sustaining'.

Further, it is possible to attain the goal for once but very hard to keep it up on that level year after year. Sustaining the 'Best Demonstrated Performance' is also a sort of 'accomplishment' (if not improvement)
It seems like my use of the word 'set' gave a different meaning than intended to my reply. What I meant was, assuming that you will achieve the goal at the end of 2010, then keep the same goal for the years after. Speaking in the future ... 'You already proved that it is realistic and achievable in 2010'. Now all you have to do is maintain the same high level of performance since I do not see how you can improve on 0 safety incidents unless you go into negative numbers (?).
 
S

samsung

#27
It seems like my use of the word 'set' gave a different meaning than intended to my reply. What I meant was, assuming that you will achieve the goal at the end of 2010, then keep the same goal for the years after. Speaking in the future ... 'You already proved that it is realistic and achievable in 2010'. Now all you have to do is maintain the same high level of performance since I do not see how you can improve on 0 safety incidents unless you go into negative numbers (?).
It doesn't appear to be that much simple. I know it is one of the most difficult (may be impossible) tasks to achieve and I'm yet to know of few of the organizations who have done it before and maintained it year after year. Ofcourse, one may come across a few, who possibly don't report the accidents or don't have a system of reporting.

Moreover, I don't rate it 'realistic' even if it is achieved once for a short period due to some inexplicable reasons.
 
D

DrM2u

#28
I did not mean to insinuate that it is realistic to maintain 0 incidents for many years in a row, although it is possible in some rare cases. A goal can be realistic for a certain period of time but not another. I agree with you, it might be realistic to have 0 incidents for one year, however it might not be realistic to have that achievement repeat year after year. This is where you ask 'how do I sustain this'. Just like a team, they might win the championship one year but repeating the feat year after year is another story. After all, there are statistical studies that indicate that the chances for an even to occur grow over time.
 
B

brahmaiah

#29
Differant industries have differant probabilities of accident occurances.I know one ammunition factory where major accidents resulting in at least 1/2 dozen deaths take place every year.In another glass tempering factory hand injury by glass are a daily affairs.Well the road accidents are an hourly affairs.

Accidents donot happen, they are caused.

In differant situations/industries differant preventive measures are required and are generally known to all concerned.All these preventive measures are required to be notified and displayed prominently.

There are some industries where fatal accidents occur due to ignorence and lack of sufficient technical knowledge.
I was a witness in a compressor factory where a gas compressor burst like a bomb and broke 5 persons into pieces of flesh during night shift.The cause being that the compressor sump with high nitrogen pressure and oil inside was being welded from outside for closing gas leak.
This was purely due to lack of technical knowledge by the workers and their supervisor.The cause of accident was:The welding heat expanded nitrogen gas inside sump which got mixed with oil and formed an high pressure explosive gas and burst out like a bomd.

V.J.Brahmaiah
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#30
<snip>Accidents donot happen, they are caused.
I am a little confused here by this statement. Accident means an unplanned/unscheduled event.

Good you help clarify to me what is meant here? I am a little naive.

But either way a "Zero" accident level is in my opinion is unattainable or unrealistic goal.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
normhowe "The Problem with Quality Management: Process orientation, controllability and zero-defect processes as modern myths" Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 2
E Zero part to part variation - Gage R&R project Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 15
P ISO 9001 certification with zero customers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
D Certifying a "virtual" company with zero employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
Sam Lazzara Time Zero testing in med device aging studies Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 3
C Are zero defect sampling plans relevant to AS9120B Distributor AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
M Zero Defect Sampling Plan Standards Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
B IATF 16949 Cl. 8.6.6 - Acceptance Criteria - Zero Defects Attribute Data Sampling IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
WCHorn Changing Sampling Accept Number to Zero, Arbitrarily AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 15
F Zero to certification in 6 months! Covegratulations 5
C ISO 9001:2008 Audit Major Finding - Dial Calipers not set to zero ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
R Can Cp and Cpk be zero? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 10
W Zero setting of correlation graph when plotting best fit linear regression Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 7
M Zero Tolerancing on True Position using MMC (Maximum Material Condition) Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
P Rounding Uncertainty to Zero on a Calibration Certificate Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 7
S Justifying the AQL for a Zero (C=0) Acceptance Plan (Medical Device) AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 6
L What is the Cpk for Zero Defects Six Sigma 4
optomist1 Differences and Advantages of using a Zero Positional Tolerance at MMC Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
S Getting Zero for GR&R Reproducibility? Using Minitab Software 5
V C=0 Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plan - Question Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
R Zero Acceptance Sampling Plans 5th edition by Squeglia - Question Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
M Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plans for Isolated Lots Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
P Minitab error: Zero or negative degrees of freedom Using Minitab Software 16
T Zero Failure Sampling Plans Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
M AQL (Acceptable Quality Level) for Zero Defects AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 13
C Can you change all your WI (Work Instruction) revisions back to zero (0) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
Chennaiite High Technology Visual Inspection for Casting and Forging Parts - Zero Defects Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 11
M Cpk with LSL (Lower Specification Limit) at zero? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 3
Q Zero-Based Sampling Plan - Governing document or main reference document Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
P Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plans, Fifth Edition (e-Book) Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
K Design of Lot Acceptance Sampling Plan - Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plans Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 27
P Definition S-type Tolerance - Unilateral tolerance where the desired value is 0 (zero) Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
C AV equals Zero in Minitab - MSA with 2 Appraisers Using Minitab Software 11
U Zero findings!!!!!!!!!!! First visit back since our registration audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
I R-sq Value is Almost Zero - Linearity Study Question Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
D What does Zero Defects mean? TS 16949 Clause 7.1.2 AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 6
Y What is the confidence level for a given AQL in zero sampling plan AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 4
A Is zero defects possible? We are dealing with 25 to 30 parameters Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 21
D The difference between zero defect and zero defection? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
J Zero Defect Dating Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 37
G Stuck with Zero Defect target - Manufacturing Waste Target is Zero Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 17
Marc Ford bondholders zero in on cash, not recovery values World News 0
C Sampling plan/method that accepts on ZERO defects Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
Marc Microsoft Excel zero-day vulnerability confirmed Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 2
Wayne Searching for Zero - The Definitive Dimensional Metrology Reference Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 7
Marc Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plan - C=0 Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 0
D Zero Acceptance Sampling - Is anyone is actually using this? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
P Zero Acceptance Sampling Plan By N.L. Squeglia Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
C Can the Standard Deviation (SD) value be zero? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 13
S Gas Spectrometers - Calibration vs. Zero Adjustment General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom