ISMS (Information Security Management System) Implementation Guide

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pldey42

#11
Hmm ... perhaps I should have said that ISO 9001 says nothing useful about risk management. The reference is not specific, not auditable and seems applicable only at a broad strategic level. I can imagine some imagining that it means an organization should do ISO 9001 if there is a risk of losing business without Certification. Enough was known in 2008 about managing risks in design, manufacturing, supply chain, logistics, service delivery, staffing and the management of intellectual property to have added specific, useful requirements for risk management in those areas and perhaps more, yet just this one vague reference was added. Since it was not added in 2008 when it could have been, there is surely a risk that it will not be added in the next version either ... does anyone know if it is at least being discussed?
 
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#12
Not a requirement but the premise to ISO 9001 does...



ISO 31000 was published 2010. The latest iteration of ISO 9001 in 2008. I will be surprised if risk management is NOT included in the 2012 or 2013 revision of ISO 9001.
That's a deep dive, IMHO, to suggest that ISO 9001 comes anywhere close to being about risk! The inclusion of risk management is already on the table with the next version, and has been part of a survey on changes. Furthermore, risk is likely to be included in place of preventive action - mainly because few have a clue what to do about that aspect.
 
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pldey42

#13
Thanks for this Andy. Yes indeed, I think preventive action is more often than not risk management by another (obfuscatory) name. What ISO 27001 has, which ISO 9001 lacks, is detailed requirements for identifying risks and their impacts upon the organization, and mitigation measures.

BS 31000 is helpful but generic, and like several ISO standards, is impossible to learn from - you have to understand risk management to understand BS 31000. I heard at a conference a few months ago that the next version will try to provide risk management methods common to quality, information security, health and safety, environment and so forth. I think that's probably a mistake because it will have to be so generic as to be unhelpful. For example, ISO 27001 requires the organization to consider threats (the things that can cause loss) and the vulnerabilities in information security mitigation measures they might exploit. The concept isn't helpful in engineering quality, where we identify failure modes - the concept of a threat (a thief) and a vulnerability (an open door) has no analogous concept in engineering where a failure mode is, for example, running an engine with bad or too little oil.

For risk management in information security ISO 27005 is okay, but the SEI's Octave Allegro method is IMHO better. The UK's GCHQ/CESG offers good guidance too, some of it public on their website.

http://www.sei.cmu.edu/solutions/risk/octave-allegro.cfm
http://www.cesg.gov.uk/

I don't know of anything as helpful in quality management and imagine that the medical device industry and aviation are furtherest ahead, along with defence subcontractors. If anyone knows of some useful quality risk management models that fill ISO 9001's current gap I'd be interested to know of them.

Hope this helps,
Pat
 
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