ISO 10004:2012 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuring

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#1
ISO has recently released (I suspect a press release is forthcoming) ISO/TS 10004. The abstract reads:
ISO/TS 10004:2010 provides guidance in defining and implementing processes to monitor and measure customer satisfaction.

ISO/TS 10004:2010 is intended for use by organizations regardless of type, size or product provided. The focus of ISO/TS 10004:2010 is on customers external to the organization.

ISO/TS 10004:2010 is not intended for certification or contractual purposes, nor is it intended to change any rights or obligations under applicable statutory or regulatory requirements.
I wonder how long will it take for the first sucker organization to be certified to ISO 10004, just like ISO 10002 and PAS99....
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

ISO has recently released (I suspect a press release is forthcoming) ISO/TS 10004. The abstract reads:


I wonder how long will it take for the first sucker organization to be certified to ISO 10004, just like ISO 10002 and PAS99....
Certs look very attractive.. :notme:

Stijloor.
 
V

vanputten

#4
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

Hello Sidney:

How would an organization become certified to ISO/TS 10004? Do you mean a non-accredited certification?

From the draft of TS 10004:

"0.4 Statements regarding conformity
This Technical Specification is not intended for certification or contractual purposes, nor is it intended to change any rights or obligations under applicable statutory or regulatory requirements.

ISO 10002 has this statement: "This International Standard is not intended for certification or contractual purposes."

DNV offers certification to PAS 99 or at least they used to.

Thank you,

Dirk
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

How would an organization become certified to ISO/TS 10004? Do you mean a non-accredited certification?
If you peruse this thread, you will see that some CB's have certified organizations to ISO 10002. If you read this post, you will read that a Cove moderator states that PAS 99 is a certifiable standard, even though the document states
Certification to this PAS in its own right is not appropriate.
DNV offers certification to PAS 99 or at least they used to.
OK, Dirk. Do you have any objective evidence to that effect? It might be the case, but I don't recall seeing it.
 
D

DrM2u

#6
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

Is it just me or there is a global tendency to over-standardize everything?!? :mg: What will be next? :confused:
 
D

DrM2u

#7
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

On the topic of certification, I am leaning toward Dirk's position.

I could audit and certify that an organization adheres to a set of rules (ISO standard, FDA, EN, etc) regardless if the issuing authority states that the rules are just guidelines and/or not certifieble to. I would be entitled to do so and conduct my certification business as long as I do not break any local, national or international laws. :notme: The question is whether or not my cetification meets my client's needs (customer requirements, corporate plans, etc). It is up to my professional integrity to ensure that I meet my obligations to my client and that I make my client aware of any related implications. :cool:

It is also up to my ability as a salesperson to convince the client that my services add value to the organization and regard the certification as an investment instead of a cost. ;)

These being said, I venture to guess that less scrupulous consultants and organizations already are pushing for this certification. Let's face it: money talks! Also, ignorance and stupidity are expensive traits! :agree1:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#8
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

I could audit and certify that an organization adheres to a set of rules (ISO standard, FDA, EN, etc) regardless if the issuing authority states that the rules are just guidelines and/or not certifieble to. I would be entitled to do so and conduct my certification business as long as I do not break any local, national or international laws. :notme: The question is whether or not my cetification meets my client's needs (customer requirements, corporate plans, etc). It is up to my professional integrity to ensure that I meet my obligations to my client and that I make my client aware of any related implications.
I copy a reply that I offered to another question:
Then the unanswerable question would be: how can one objectively assess conformance and attain certification to a GUIDANCE standard? One of the basic precepts of management system certification is the ability for an organization to objectively assess conformance against auditable requirements. Any management system professional realizes the challenges of conformance verification against "clear cut" requirements and the practical "impossibility" of demonstrating conformance to guidance documents. That is why, in the ISO 9000 family of documents (comprised in it's majority by GUIDANCE DOCUMENTS), only a couple of standards are certifiable.
All of the ISO Guidance documents can be put to good use. It just does not have to be via a CERTIFICATION ROUTE. If we already have tremendous disparity of interpretation and implementation with "clear cut" auditable, requirements-based standards, I can only imagine how much heterogeneity we would have with guidance documents.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#9
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

What are the criteria for determining conformity to a guidance document?

ISO 19011 is a guidance document that I'm very familiar with. What if we decided to provide certification services to it? I believe ISO 19011 has good guidance, however if I included all of the content for an audit report that ISO 19011 says I "should" or "may" include in the report, most of my audit reports would weigh two or three times as much as they do now.

If I leave out some items that the standard says the report "should" include, would that stop my certification to that standard? If not, where does the auditor draw the line?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: ISO/TS 10004:2010 - Customer satisfaction - Guidelines for monitoring and measuri

What are the criteria for determining conformity to a guidance document?
Very simple: the guidance should be "complied" with. But if it isn't, that's ok. You still get certified......:sarcasm:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
I Where to buy ISO 10001, 10002, 10003 & 10004 (latest) Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
S Need ISO 15189:2012 Documentation toolkit. Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 0
chris1price Archiving of paper records - ISO 9001 7.5.3.1b Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 4
M Transferring ISO 17025 from one company to another ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
D Common practices in ISO 9001 deployment ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
Q ISO 9001-2015 Internal audit finding Internal Auditing 12
B ISO 17025:2017 risk management Risk Management Principles and Generic Guidelines 0
P Audit check for IT company (ISO 9001) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Label Making & Printing Standards ISO / ASTM ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
Sidney Vianna Interesting Discussion Should ISO 9004 be changed from a guidance standard to a requirements standard? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Ed Panek ISO 13485:2016 Section 5.5.3 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
Q Do these certificates of calibration meet ISO 9001 requirements for traceability to NIST? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
ebrahim QMS as per ISO 13485, Clause 4.2 Requirements for regulatory purposes for Medical Devices Authorized Representatives. ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
S ISO 2768-mk print call out Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 11
T ISO 17024, clauses 4.3.8. and 5.1.1. Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 4
C ISO 14001:2015 6.1.3 Compliance Obligations - Legal requirements monitoring ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 0
C Requirement to link Quality Manual to ISO 9001 clause numbers? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13
D ISO 13485 scope (implantable) - Polymers for dental application EU Medical Device Regulations 9
W First time being audited (ISO 9001), asking for advice ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
John C. Abnet ISO 26262 ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 3
Marc ISO 26262- Road vehicles – Functional safety ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 0
John C. Abnet ISO 26262 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
A ISO/DIS 15223-1:2020 - Country of manufacture label (IEC 60417 No. 6049) - Which national law requires this symbol? Other Medical Device Related Standards 0
P ISO 14644 Class 8 Cleanroom Air Filter Requirements Other Medical Device Related Standards 4
K PDCA cycle and ISO processes alternative model Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 14
N ISO 13485 7.3.9 Change control in medical device software ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
A ISO 13485 procedure change and reflect to legacy manufacture items ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
D ISO 13485 & CE Certification for Surgical Gloves CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 0
S ISO 11137- Simulated product vs SIP Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
D Which ISO Standard to purchase? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
V ISO 10360-5: 2020 Gap analysis and Action plan Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 1
Q ISO 9001 - Reseller Exclusions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
S Inventory Listing and ISO 13485:2016 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
C ISO 45001 6.1.2.1 Hazard Identification Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 1
T The difference between ISO 14644-3:2005 and ISO 14644:2019 Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
S Any ISO standards around Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning? Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics 4
R AS9100D internal audit checklist or ISO 9001 2015 to AS9100 D AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
M ISO 13485:2016 Certification Scope ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
N ISO 9001 - Training business with fewer than 5 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
P Should eIFU link per ISO 15223-1:2016 be added to labels out of scope of Reg 207/2012? EU Medical Device Regulations 1
J Opportunity in ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 27
D Reports under change management | ISO 13485:2016 & ISO 9001:2015 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
P ISO 8 classified medical manufacturing room Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 1
Le Chiffre Online training available for ISO/IEC 17021-1: Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
B ISO 6508 and portable hardness measurement instruments General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
M Scope for ISO 13485 Certification of a Translation Service Provider ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
S Knee Implant (Femoral -Cobalt chrome)-Sub chronic toxicity test (ISO 10993-11)choice of root Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2
Sidney Vianna Release of ISO 10013:2021, Quality management systems – Guidance for documented information Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 0
K Integrating ISO 9001:2015 with ISO 17025:2017 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Q ISO 13485 7.5.6 Validation - Off the shelf Software ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom