ISO 10018:2012 - Quality management - Guidelines on people involvement and competence

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#11
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

Thanks to all for the replies.

In answer to a couple of points. The development of the standard is at the request of ISO. I have attached the design brief.

I understand the concerns with another ISO standard but would hope that this guidance document could be a useful addition for organizations. Dealing with people is a key competence for organization's leaders - I take the point that it should be commons sense but the problem is for some organizations it is not all that common and the leaders aren't all that sensible. :lol:

Thanks for the link, Pat. It is a document that has been mentioned by a couple of people - not one I am familiar with .....yet!
 

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pldey42

#12
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

I think it's possible that this new standard could be very helpful. I referred to the SEI's People Management Maturity Model years ago when first I tried to implement a quality management system in a software organization. I soon found out that while processes and procedures are not too hard to deal with, people, especially managers, are ... difficult.

The PMMM helped me figure out the people management processes we didn't have, and needed, in order to manage effectively -- things like performance reviews linked to personal skills improvement and so on. Without processes for managing people and developing their skills I think quality management is doomed to failure. For example, think of all those companies that are held up as examples of good quality management, only to disappear almost without trace when their charismatic leader retires: they forget to develop leaders and do succession planning, and the management culture collapses.

ISO 9001 says little on the matter and I hope this new standard will fill in some gaps.

You're right, Paul, that it ought to be common sense. But as the good Doctor Deming remarked, "common sense is neither".

Cheers,
Pat
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#13
Re: ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001

It's an interesting venture to develop guidelines for something like this, however, I personally think this is not an item well suited to the format of ISO standards, primarily because people are involved and people are dynamic beyond a point of standardization.
Certainly the last bit is very true. My understanding is that these guidelines (so not a specification type standard like ISO 9001) will be about processes rather than output. So outlining good practices for communication (for example) but not specifically requiring anything.

It's silly, imo, to try and standardize your ISO 9001 workforce to fit a picture perfect mold.
You're right - if that was how it was meant to work. As mentioned it is looking to provide guidance on good practice.
I suppose you could lay out competency requirements, basic leadership tools and communication tools, but in essence you're making a list of what any good manager should already know and practice. Further, will this list be functional for the wide variety of ISO 9001 certified companies in the many different industries?
In the same way as ISO 9001 deals with principles any guidance "standard" will deal with people issues that apply in any organization you work in.

I'd actually like some elaboration on what the goal is with this standard. Honestly when I think of this standard I think:

Compliance to ISO 10018 = "our managers don't suck"
Hopefully the design brief answers your question.

I'm interested in hearing your perspective...you are obviously interested as you are going to participate in developing the standard, so I'd be eager to hear what you hope this standard would accomplish.
Throughout the Cove you will have seen examples of how poorly some managers do their jobs and demotivate staff rather than motivate.

If this guidance can help at all it will be time and effort well spent. :agree1:
 
Q

qualityboi

#14
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

I have to say the shoe fits. Currently our org is undergoing the business planning process which should be finalized by the end of the year. In the mean time we have just been asked for goals. Instead of the goals cascading from the business plan...we just have to come up with something. Personally I would like to some specific requirements of corporate governance.
 
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Benjamin28

#15
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

Throughout the Cove you will have seen examples of how poorly some managers do their jobs and demotivate staff rather than motivate.

If this guidance can help at all it will be time and effort well spent.
I quite agree Paul, and I hope that it will help. I do realize it's a quidance document, and will be useful in that manner. My comments come from a series of long weeks sprinkled with unpleasant events, so they are probably more exceptionally cynical than usual for me :frust:

The first thing I pictured was some QM looking over 10018 so that they can include a few questions from it in their mail in survey before sending it off to me, obviously a cup half empty kinda thought :rolleyes:

Anyhow, I do hope you can make an impact with this document. As Sydney suggested, it's a very broad subject to tackle and will likely require an extensive amount of research and work. Best of luck.
 
A

Ahsas

#16
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

Thanks to all for the replies.

In answer to a couple of points. The development of the standard is at the request of ISO. I have attached the design brief.

I understand the concerns with another ISO standard but would hope that this guidance document could be a useful addition for organizations. Dealing with people is a key competence for organization's leaders - I take the point that it should be commons sense but the problem is for some organizations it is not all that common and the leaders aren't all that sensible. :lol:

Thanks for the link, Pat. It is a document that has been mentioned by a couple of people - not one I am familiar with .....yet!

The web search shows another reference to 10018, that is, "ISO 10018 Complaints Handling". Are there two different documents with the same number or is this an obsolete reference?
 
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Ricardo Santos

#18
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

You´re right! I remember in 2005 the Complaints Handling Number was supposed to be 10018 but they changed (but I don´t have the email anymore) that it was renamed (probable) 10004:2005...Check it out OK..
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#19
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

The web search shows another reference to 10018, that is, "ISO 10018 Complaints Handling". Are there two different documents with the same number or is this an obsolete reference?
It is an obsolete reference. Check the attached file for current documents, documents being developed and obsolete documents under TC 176.
 

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Ricardo Santos

#20
Re: Development of ISO 10018 - People Aspects of 9001 - Your thoughts?

Actually - Complaints Handling - Guidelines is ISO 10002:2004 but in the FDIS stage it was supposed to be 10018
 
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