ISO 14001 / 18001 - How to incorporate these two standards - Internal audit checklist

  • Thread starter Casey Cochran - 2009
  • Start date
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Casey Cochran - 2009

#1
Hello all,
I have been spending a lot of time traveling through this great forum and it has been a real help in my new job. However, I am now re-creating the 14001/18001 internal audit program. Person before me had a 42 page plantwide get it all checklist but... Auditor did not like it.:confused: It was too vague. Anyway, I was wondering if I could get some advise on how to incorporate these two standards into a checklist?
 
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LEADAUDITOR

#2
checklist

My suggestion would to audit each area for these two standards. Take items that you may have had problems with and add them to the checklist under the correct element. This way your auditing the areas that has the most concern.
 

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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#3
I'm curious as to what you mean, Casey, by "It was too vague." Granted, if this is the opinion of your external auditor, you may want more clarification from him/her before continuing any further. :)

That being said, you could always develop a checklist that repeats the shalls from the standard and then select the appropriate clauses for the process being audited. If I was auditing our furnace process, for example, I wouldn't audit on management review, but I would talk about emergency preparedness (and other stuff, too).

Or you create a checklist template and develop a customized checklist each time you audit. Base it upon the standards and the processes so that each audit is specific to the process being audited.

But first, the "It was too vague" statement is to vague. :D
 
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Casey Cochran - 2009

#4
Vague...well, the old way of doing these was to do multible areas, summed together in one checklist. The auditor saw one checklist that was made specificly for our plating / wastewater treatment, due to complexity. (only 14001) He liked that idea and wanted to see each area to have it's own, specific checklist, since there are so many different operations in our facility. (stamping, heat treat, plating, staking, 800 ton press, brazing, bending, etc, etc..) Is a checklist even the way to go?
 
L

LEADAUDITOR

#5
checklist

not necessarily. If you can audit without a checklist and still meet the intent of the standard, you'll be ok. Alway remember when being audited, it is only the auditor's perception. So if you do not agree with an issue, question motives for the issue. The standards are vague as well. This gives you the advantage. I always worked without a checklist and still got it done by the standards.
 
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Casey Cochran - 2009

#6
I could do it but I have other auditors who need the guidance to ensure a complete audit. I was hoping someone might have a good example I could use to help get me started in the right direction.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
Casey the checklist is just the beginning and not "The Audit". You use it to get to where you need to start. Also conduct your audit the way the work flows..we call this process auditing. Once you've done an audit to the "shalls" you need to get deeper into how the "shalls" are actually being met.
 
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tigerfan51

#8
Audit Checklists vs. Effectiveness

Internal audit checklists tend to repeat the standard and focus on implementation issues - questions like "does the company have have a procedure" , "is the procedure documented" , "does the company have a policy" , "is the policy available to the public", etc. Implementation issues and making sure that all shalls in the standard are met is important for a new system/internal audit program. This makes perfect sence when the system is new - you want to make sure all the bases are covered. However, if your internal audit program continues to ask only these types of questions it will become very repetitive and eventually useless.

The challenge for an internal audit program is to evolve and become more sophisticated as the system matures. The program should place less emphasis on implementation questions and spend more time assessing the effectivness of the area / element being audited. Questions that test effectiveness are much harder to develop and can't be taken directly from the standard. Examples such as "was an EMP conducted/completed as planned" , "what results were achieved by the EMP" , "were the achieved results as expected" , "have policy commitments been achieved" , "how were policy committments achieved" , "has the overall intent of the policy been achieved" are ones that attempt to determine if the company is effective in the areas being audited.

So my advice is to not overly rely on checklists which just test the shalls in the standard. You need to examine/analyze each area/process/element being audited and develop specific questions which will help your auditors make a judgement as to whether or not the system continues to be effective in that particular area/process/element.
 
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Charlie Brown

#9
Does anyone have an editable version of an ISO 14001:2004 Internal Audit Checklist? If so, can you please post. "Need Desperately" Thanks!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
Charlie Brown said:
Does anyone have an editable version of an ISO 14001:2004 Internal Audit Checklist? If so, can you please post. "Need Desperately" Thanks!
Welcome to the Cove, Charlie :bigwave: . I removed your post in the other forum; duplicate posting is frowned upon; you'll most likely get a directed response (like this one) in this forum. Have a look in this thread: Internal Auditor Check List for ISO 14001, and also use the Search function to see what other nuggets you might be able to come up with.
 
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