ISO 14001 Clause 4.5.4 - Internal Audit - Must a company perform internal audits?

A

adamsjh

#1
If a company has an external registering body providing pre-audit, registration, and surveillance audits, does that meet the intent of the 4.5.4 EMS audit clause? In other words, does the standard require that the company perform internal audits in addition to the (annual) external audits? In my intrepretation, internal audits are not required.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hey.... Welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

Im sorry to have to disappoint you, but I beg to differ. You are required to have internal audits.

ISO14001:1996, clause 4.5.4:

The organization shall establish and maintain (a) programme(s) and procedures for periodic environmental management system audits to be carried out...

The organization... That's you, I'm afraid.

/Claes
 
#3
adamsjh said:
If a company has an external registering body providing pre-audit, registration, and surveillance audits, does that meet the intent of the 4.5.4 EMS audit clause? In other words, does the standard require that the company perform internal audits in addition to the (annual) external audits? In my intrepretation, internal audits are not required.
adamsjh, first of all, welcome to the Cove!!! :bigwave:

I have to agree with Claes. Not must you conduct internal audits, but I wounder why you wouldn't. Any good third-party auditor will tell you he/she is just verifying your audits. Internal audits are (at least should be) the REAL audits! I would have serious concerns about any organization which was trying to avoid them.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
I just went through this dance number with a company this week in a training class and and another company previously during an audit.

A competent 3rd party auditor will nail your prad to a board if you don't do your internal audits....oh yes, also audit your audit program and your auditors too.
 
J

Jennifer

#5
Hi Randy,
You mentioned "oh yes, also audit your audit program and your auditors too." Can you recommend or suggests ways other company's are fulfilling this requirement?
Thanks in advance,
Jennifer
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
Jennifer said:
Hi Randy,
You mentioned "oh yes, also audit your audit program and your auditors too." Can you recommend or suggests ways other company's are fulfilling this requirement?
Thanks in advance,
Jennifer
Other company's are auditing their audit program for effectiveness, the competence of their auditors and the coverage of their audit program over the system.

Everything in the system, including the audit program, is auditable and must be audited by the organization. If I, as a 3rd party auditor, see that you are not auditing your audit program as required by 4.5.4, I'll have no choice in my course of action.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
I Environmental Policy Content - ISO 14001 Clause 5.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
K ISO 14001:2015 clause 8.1 on outsourced processes ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Q ISO 14001:2015 Clause 6.1: Actions to address Risks & Opportunities ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
S ISO 14001 Clause 4.1 Organization and its context - What does an Auditor expect? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
M ISO 14001 - Should we list the standard itself in clause 4.3.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
K ISO 14001 Clause 4.3.3 - Compulsory Objectives ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
I ISO 14001 Clause 4.3.3 Objectives, Targets and Programme(s) clarification ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
B Complying with ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.4 "Document Interaction" ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 9
B Commitment to Comply - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 - Environmental Policy ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
hogheavenfarm Environmental Policy Publicly Available - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2f REACH and RoHS Conversations 5
A ISO 14001:2004 Clause 4.4.6 - Operational control (in English) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
I Environmental Systems Interactions - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.4c ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
A Definition Operating Criteria - Definition - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.6(b) Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 22
L Do we need a seperate procedure for each ISO 14001 sub clause? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Colin Emergency Preparedness and Response procedure - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.7 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
M Training $ Costs - Training Needs Analysis - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.2a ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
C Emergency Preparedness and Response - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.7 - Aquaculture company ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 9
R ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.4c - Interaction of Main Elements: How to Demonstrate? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
J ISO 14001 Clause 3.4: Environmental Impacts - What is the definition of an 'Impact'? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
J ISO 14001 Clause 3.3, 3.4 - Or, which came first, the Impact or the Aspect? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
E Auditing the Environmental Policy - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 a ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 14
Randy ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 - Developing an Environmental Policy Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 12
A ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.2 - When do I need a procedure? Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 12
Randy ISO 14001 - Clause 4.4.4 - Required EMS Documentation Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 13
M ISO 14001 - Clause 4.4.5 - Record Retention Periods - How do I determine? Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 18
A Question on ISO 14001:2015 - Are annual audits required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
J ISO 14001 revision process ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Raffy ISO 14001 9.2.2 Internal Audit Programme Content Internal Auditing 9
Jacquie Collins 6 Risks and Opportunities ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
M Intention of Planned Arrangments term in ISO 14001 2004 vs 2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001 Re-Certification Audit Preparation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Sidney Vianna Informational ISO 14001 Certificates Top 15 Countries - 1999 to 2017 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 - I need a format for Design & Development planning ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
Q ISO 14001:2015 accredited but import most product - CB Raised minor NC on Life Cycle Perspective ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
QAQT Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S Necessity of Legal Register to conform to ISO 9001, ISO 14001, IATF 16949 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
B Integrated management system - ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 - Is possible to have a joint certificate covering both standards? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
P ISO 14001 - Looking for a Gap Analysis Template ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
J Facility Expansion and ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
M PDCA cycle - Process mapping - Environmental ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
A Operating criteria for production processes - ISO 14001 Cl. 8.1 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
Sidney Vianna Support & Guidance Material for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 0
C ISO 14001 vs Existing Quality System - How to keep them separate? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
K ISO 14001:2015 certification for two locations required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
A ISO 14001:2015 transition from the 2004 standard ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Q Risk/Opportunity in a combined ISO 9001 & 14001 System ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
Q Risk & opportunity assessment - ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Q Correspondence between ISO 14001:2015 & OHSAS 18001:2007 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
R Sequence and Interaction - Combined for both ISO 9001:2015 and EMS 14001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom