ISO 14001 Environmental Scope - Auditor Pushing Us to Expand it!

S

Steve Z - 2008

#1
Our surveillance auditor is pushing for us to expand our environmental scope declaration.
Does anyone have a scope that I can peruse.

Steve Z.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: ISO 14001 Environmental Scope

Our surveillance auditor is pushing for us to expand our environmental scope declaration.
Does anyone have a scope that I can peruse.
The scope of certification should reflect the system being certified. Normally, the scope of certification is agreed between the Certification Body and their client, early on. For an auditor to suggest that your EMS scope of certification should be expanded, s/he must have some indication that the current certificate does not really reflect the system being certified. If that is the case, s/he should have let you know CLEARLY what is the concern about the scope of certification, so you can implement a correction.

So, did your auditor indicate what is missing?
PS The ISO 14001 certificate, displayed at your website, is outdated now.
 
S

Steve Z - 2008

#3
Perhaps I was too brief.
This is not the scope of the certification by the scope required in 4.1 - General Requirements.
He stated that our scope declaration was fine for the previous version of 14001 but not for the current version.
The Environmental Scope which we show in our Manual states "Our EMS provides a mechanism for environmental management throughout our organization. The EMS is designed to cover all aspects whcih we can control and directly manage, and those we can influence while not directly controlling them."
The Auditor stated that we needed to add things that are specified in 4.3.2 & 4.3.3 plus include that we will do corective and preventive action when a nonconformity (or potential) is found during an audit. Also it needs to define boundaries which include physical, system and interfacial.
The last statement about boundaries is what has me stumped.
 
S

Steve Z - 2008

#4
Re: ISO 14001 Environmental Scope

Thanks for the comment about our web site. I'll remind IT.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Perhaps I was too brief.
This is not the scope of the certification by the scope required in 4.1 - General Requirements.
He stated that our scope declaration was fine for the previous version of 14001 but not for the current version.
The Environmental Scope which we show in our Manual states "Our EMS provides a mechanism for environmental management throughout our organization. The EMS is designed to cover all aspects whcih we can control and directly manage, and those we can influence while not directly controlling them."
The Auditor stated that we needed to add things that are specified in 4.3.2 & 4.3.3 plus include that we will do corective and preventive action when a nonconformity (or potential) is found during an audit. Also it needs to define boundaries which include physical, system and interfacial.
The last statement about boundaries is what has me stumped.
Your auditor is full of tripe (or any othe word you'd like to insert)................If he has issue with this he can contact me.

All your scope has to do is establish the boundaries of your EMS. It looks to me that he doesn't know the difference between the Scope and the Policy requirements.

Boundaries....."Our management system will encompass everything we do, we use and that we make".

Look at this Scope from The Missouri University of Science and Technology(Missouri S&T)

The Scope of the EMS:
The Environmental Management System of the Univeristy of Missouri - Rolla (Missouri S&T) includes educational, research and administrative activities on the Missouri S&T Campus.



Here is the Scope of the EMS for EPA Region 7

Region 7 EMS Scope

The scope of the Region 7 EMS covers all activities undertaken in our facilities located at:

901 North 5th Street, Kansas City, Kansas (Regional Office)
300 Minnesota Avenue, Kansas City, Kansas (Science & Technology Center)
Hunt Midwest Subtropolis, 8600 Roadway, Building 81C, Kansas City, Missouri (warehouse facility)
Various field locations in Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa
It also includes how we travel to and from various field locations in Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, and Iowa and our ability to provide alternatives to single occupant vehicles for our employees as they commute to and from work.
 
#6
I agree with Randy. When any (external) auditor 'suggests' that something like a scope be expanded, there's uncertainty and if there's a requirement in one of those clauses mentioned, then an NC/OFI or whatever can be written.

Tripe is right! With onions..........
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
The Auditor stated that we needed to add things that are specified in 4.3.2 & 4.3.3
Where is the shall?
plus include that we will do corective and preventive action when a nonconformity (or potential) is found during an audit.
Obviously your EMS must do those things. But to require that is declared in some type of scope definition is nonsensical, imo.
Also it needs to define boundaries which include physical, system and interfacial. The last statement about boundaries is what has me stumped.
Annex A (INFORMATIVE, not NORMATIVE) of ISO 14001:2004 states
An organization has the freedom and flexibility to define its boundaries and may choose to implement this International Standard with respect to the entire organization or to specific operating units of the organization. The organization should define and document the scope of its environmental management system. Defining the scope is intended to clarify the boundaries of the organization to which the environmental management system will apply, especially if the organization is a part of a larger organization at a given location. Once the scope is defined, all activities, products and services of the organization within that scope need to be included in the environmental management system. When setting the scope, it should be noted that the credibility of the environmental management system will depend upon the choice of organizational boundaries. If a part of an organization is excluded from the scope of its environmental management system, the organization should be able to explain the exclusion. If this International Standard is implemented for a specific operating unit, policies and procedures developed by other parts of the organization can be used to meet the requirements of this International Standard, provided that they are applicable to that specific operating unit.
From what I gather, your organization is a single site, boundary-defined company. If the external auditor has concerns about the scope of application of your EMS, s/he is not making it clear where the (potential?) problem lies.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
Perhaps I was too brief.

The Auditor stated that we needed to add things that are specified in 4.3.2 & 4.3.3 plus include that we will do corective and preventive action when a nonconformity (or potential) is found during an audit. Also it needs to define boundaries which include physical, system and interfacial.
The last statement about boundaries is what has me stumped.
4.3.2 is the requirement to identify regulatory and other requirements relevant to your aspects

4.3.3 is to establish documented objects and the planning necessary to achieve them while taking into account your aspects and regulatory and other requirements

4.5.3 is the corrective and preventive actions requirement

When you commit yourself to meeting applicable regulatory and other requirements in your Policy you have already commited to meet the requirments of 14001 (ISO 14001 is an "other requirement"). When you commit to meeting the requirements of 14001 the committment to perform corrective and preventive actions is automatic in the Policy and does not need to be done again... I'd give your auditor a DUH on that one and I'd say it to his face.

Therefore all you need to do is to provide the evidence of meeting your committments by addressing the requirements (through your documentation) and your fulfillment (through your records).
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#9
4.3.2 is the requirement to identify regulatory and other requirements relevant to your aspects

4.3.3 is to establish documented objects and the planning necessary to achieve them while taking into account your aspects and regulatory and other requirements

4.5.3 is the corrective and preventive actions requirement

When you commit yourself to meeting applicable regulatory and other requirements in your Policy you have already commited to meet the requirments of 14001 (ISO 14001 is an "other requirement"). When you commit to meeting the requirements of 14001 the committment to perform corrective and preventive actions is automatic in the Policy and does not need to be done again... I'd give your auditor a DUH on that one and I'd say it to his face.

Therefore all you need to do is to provide the evidence of meeting your committments by addressing the requirements (through your documentation) and your fulfillment (through your records).
I agree with randy's explanation. I think what the auditor intended may not be clear. The boundaries may refer to the scope statement needs to describe what is included under the system. My clients usually describe is as the facilities that are included at the address, the buildings and outside aspects. Something along those lines.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A Environmental Compliance obligations and risks (ISO 14001:2015 6.1.3) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
I Environmental Policy Content - ISO 14001 Clause 5.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
M PDCA cycle - Process mapping - Environmental ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
R ISO 14001 Environmental targets - Office only ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 9
G ISO 14001 & Product Design Process Environmental Aspect Review Requirements ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 7
R ISO is certified to ISO 14001:2004 - What are their Significant Environmental Aspects ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
J How do I make the Environmental Policy for ISO 14001 public ? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
L Examples of a Legal Register - Environmental ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
C Is an Initial Environmental Review a must while implementing ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
D ISO 14001 Environmental Policy Content ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 31
B Commitment to Comply - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 - Environmental Policy ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
T What are the best books on Environmental Management Systems to ISO 14001 Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 11
T New to ISO 14001 - Need example of Environmental Aspect/Impact for a HVAC Contractor ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
A Small Company with ISO 14001 Environmental Targets Questions ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
N ISO 14001 Control vs. Influence - Environmental Aspects Identification ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
Sidney Vianna Environmental Aspects of Products - A forgotten issue in ISO 14001 Audits? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
K Environmental Aspects and Impacts of a Welding Process (ISO 14001) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
S Static Significant Environmental Aspects (ISO 14001 Aspects and Impacts) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
hogheavenfarm Environmental Policy Publicly Available - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2f REACH and RoHS Conversations 5
N Field Audit Tools for ISO 14001 or Environmental Compliance General Auditing Discussions 5
I Environmental Systems Interactions - ISO 14001 Clause 4.4.4c ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 14001 for Biomass Power Plant - Environmental Aspects to be considered ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 7
A "Element of" in ISO 14001:2004 (3.6 - environmental aspect)? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
P EMS (Environmental Management System) ISO 14001 Audit example wanted ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 16
Sidney Vianna Does ISO 14001 certification enhance environmental performance? - A Working Paper ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
U Legal Requirements - How Legal Requirements apply to environmental aspects? ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 7
S Making an Environmental Park - What it should contain? ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001 Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 11
J ISO 14001 Clause 3.4: Environmental Impacts - What is the definition of an 'Impact'? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
W ISO 14001 Environmental Aspects Survey Tool Needed ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
D ISO 14001 - 2004 vs. 1996 - The Changes - A Powerpoint presentation (Environmental) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 15
Sidney Vianna Informational Companies with No SIGNIFICANT Environmental Aspects - ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 127
E Auditing the Environmental Policy - ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 a ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 14
E Auditing the ISO 14001 Environmental Policy Content ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
A What are Incoming and Outgoing Environmental Aspects in ISO 14001? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
W ISO 14001 - Essential Environmental Aspects List - Seeking Comments ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
M ISO 14001 EMS (Environmental Management System) Training ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
A ISO 14001 - 4.4.4 Environmental Management System ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
B ISO 14001 Environmental Policy - Personal Liability - Making Managers Sign Policy ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
R ISO 14001 Environmental Policy - Seeking Examples ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 9
L ISO 14001 - Environmental Management Program - To govern continual improvement? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
D Integrated ISO 9001 Quality Policy and ISO 14001 Environmental Policy ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
L ISO 14001 Environmental Action Plans Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 28
J ISO 14001 - Identify Environmental Aspects and Impacts ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 36
L ISO 14001 Aspect and Impact Assessment - Direct and Indirect Environmental Impacts ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 18
Marc ISO 14001 Environmental Policy Examples ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Randy ISO 14001 Clause 4.2 - Developing an Environmental Policy Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 12
Randy Environmental Training for ISO 14001 Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
W ISO 14001 Environmental Aspects and Impacts - The Chicken Bone Thread ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 70
L ISO 14001 - 4.3.1 Environmental Aspects ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
C ISO 14001 Internal Audit - Opportunity for Improvement ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom