ISO 14001 Implementation Book Recommendations

S

samsung

#21
Very well put, Dr. Rama. For a developing country where the laws are not that comprehensive, enforcement lax and other priorities often over ride environmental concerns, it is very difficult to imagine what one can do. But it had to start from some where - me and you!
The discussion is not focused on 'developing countries'. It's a generic standard that requires the organizations to comply with the applicable laws (of land) only. Organizations may additionally choose to comply with laws of other lands if those are found to be more helpful to the environmental concerns.

The problem, as you pointed out, is in no way related to the 'comprehensiveness' (or lack of it) of the laws but, IMO, to non-adherence to one's own Environmental Policy if it

  • is appropriate to the nature, scale and environmental impacts of its activities, products and services,
  • includes a commitment to continual improvement and prevention of pollution,
  • includes a commitment to comply with applicable legal requirements and with other requirements to which the organization subscribes which relate to its environmental aspects,
  • provides the framework for setting and reviewing environmental objectives and targets,
  • is documented, implemented and maintained,
  • is communicated to all persons working for or on behalf of the organization, and
  • is available to the public.

An auditor should first determine the comprehensiveness as well as appropriateness of the policy statement in terms of the requirements stated above before raising an issue.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

harry

Super Moderator
#22
is communicated to all persons working for or on behalf of the organization, and
We would have no problems meeting the requirements if the above phrase is interpreted as all persons in your place of work or coming to work in your area. For those that are not, if evidence can be shown that you had communicated the necessaries to them. You seem to stick to your gun that more should be done and my view is yes, in the advance countries, there are compulsory training (where appropriate and particularly in certain industries) and that is because there are laws to govern them. However, there are none in my country and I am sure in yours also.

I am not sure of your auditors, but those that I met over here are aware of this.
 
S

samsung

#23
We would have no problems meeting the requirements if the above phrase is interpreted as all persons in your place of work or coming to work in your area. For those that are not, if evidence can be shown that you had communicated the necessaries to them.
Upto this point, there's no problem. Things are clear & the Organization (say 'A') has to go by this requirement.

You seem to stick to your gun that more should be done and my view is yes,
No Sir, I didn't convey that 'more' should be done. It's the aspiring auditors who expect the organizations to do more than what they never committed to do. Or they expect them to 'commit' more than what they are capable of.

in the advance countries, there are compulsory training (where appropriate and particularly in certain industries) and that is because there are laws to govern them. However, there are none in my country and I am sure in yours also.
They are simply doing what their law demands them to do. And everyone's supposed to comply with this hardcore requirement.

I am not sure of your auditors, but those that I met over here are aware of this.
I didn't get.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

harry

Super Moderator
#24
I didn't get.
is communicated to all persons working for or on behalf of the organization,
This is the common interpretation that I have with my CB auditors pertaining to the above.

the above phrase is interpreted as all persons in your place of work or coming to work in your area. For those that are not, if evidence can be shown that you had communicated the necessaries to them.
 
S

samsung

#25
This is the common interpretation that I have with my CB auditors pertaining to the above.
the above phrase is interpreted as all persons in your place of work or coming to work in your area. For those that are not, if evidence can be shown that you had communicated the necessaries to them.
I do agree.
 
#26
Hi

"Le's take the example of water which being a scarce resource, is considered as a highly significant aspect in our organization"

"Water" itself cannot be an ASPECT, leave alone SIGNIFICANT Aspect; it is a resource. If you use the definition, "that element of an activity.....that can have an impact on the environment"...then "use of water", "excessive use of water", "draining of water" etc., may qualify for significant aspect. But all these need to be related to the activities, products or services of the organization. By no stretch of imagination I can consider wearing of a jeans pants as something related to the activity, product or service of the organization. Hence someone wearing a jeans, in my opinion, is not an issue for the auditor to issue a non-conformance under ISO-14001.

By the way, if the customer (big) has mandated that the supplier (small, on whom the customer can exercise control/influence because of the business relationship) has to meet some specific water consumption requirements, then the issue of use of excess water can become an issue for the auditor to identify as a non-conformance.

With best regards,

Ramakrishnan
 
S

samsung

#27
"Water" itself cannot be an ASPECT, leave alone SIGNIFICANT Aspect; it is a resource. If you use the definition, "that element of an activity.....that can have an impact on the environment"...then "use of water", "excessive use of water", "draining of water" etc., may qualify for significant aspect. But all these need to be related to the activities, products or services of the organization. By no stretch of imagination I can consider wearing of a jeans pants as something related to the activity, product or service of the organization. Hence someone wearing a jeans, in my opinion, is not an issue for the auditor to issue a non-conformance under ISO-14001.
I didn't mean 'water' as such to be an 'aspect'. Ofcourse I meant its 'consumption / use'.

and why I quoted the example is because you said "it is possible to identify issues related to persons at the supplier's organization, if they are related to significant aspects of the customer organization, and record the gaps as non-conformance"

What I intended to convey is that inspite of something being 'significant' to your (customer) org., cannot, by default, be equally significant at the supplier's end so as to warrant some control on it. An auditor, by no means, can raise an NC simply because company 'A's SA is not being taken care by Company 'B'. Company 'B' is comfortable w.r.t. the use of this resource.

Why I quoted the example of Jean clothing, here it is. In line with your submission, if company 'B', being a link of company 'A's Supply Chain, has to consider it 'significant', then the auditor should also expect the company 'B' to ask his suppliers 'C' and 'C' to 'D' and 'D' to 'E'.....and so on. One can go to any extent in length and depth of the matter but the probe, IMO, should start from the Scope & Policy statement.

By the way, if the customer (big) has mandated that the supplier (small, on whom the customer can exercise control/influence because of the business relationship) has to meet some specific water consumption requirements, then the issue of use of excess water can become an issue for the auditor to identify as a non-conformance.
No comment. Someone already said it, "Things which are either obvious or impossible, should not be brainstormed."
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A EMS - ISO 14001:2015 Implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
S ISO 14001:2015 Implementation in my company ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 13
T ISO 14001 Implementation Help & Question about Supplier Approval ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
R ISO 14001 Implementation with EPEAT Registration Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
S What are the common Problems preventing (Gaps) Implementation of ISO 14001? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 7
L ISO 14001 Certification Implementation Gantt Chart ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Proud Liberal ISO 14001 and TS 16949 Implementation and Annual Costs Registrars and Notified Bodies 3
I Combined ISO 14001 / OHSAS 18001 Implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 16
J Implementation of ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
G Coverage of ISO 14001 within an organization - Implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
O ISO 14001 Implementation Schedule - feedback ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
O ISO 14001 Implementation Schedule - I need help and example schedule ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
M Aspect Indentification? Early stages of ISO 14001 implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
S OHSAS 18001 Implementation - ISO 14001 Integration - Worker's Comp breaks? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 10
Randy ISO 14001 Implementation Schedule - I doing a proposal and I'm stuck! Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 18
Randy ISO 14001 Implementation Return on Investment (ROI) Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 16
D ISO 14001 Implementation - Coal Mines Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 4
R ISO 14001 Implementation - The EPA's (US) Book and Links Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 10
M Planning For ISO 14001 Implementation Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 5
L ISO 14001 Implementation - Section 4.1 Monitoring and Measurement Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
C ISO 14001:2015 6.1.3 Compliance Obligations - Legal requirements monitoring ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 0
A Environmental Compliance obligations and risks (ISO 14001:2015 6.1.3) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
Z Auditor Findings ISO 14001:2015 vs. 45001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
J Audit Checklist for Integrated Management System for ISO 9001:2015, ISO 14001 & OHSAS18001 (IMS) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
G ISO 14001 - 6.1.3 Compliance Obligations ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
A Question on ISO 14001:2015 - Are annual audits required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
J ISO 14001 revision process ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Raffy ISO 14001 9.2.2 Internal Audit Programme Content Internal Auditing 10
Jacquie Collins 6 Risks and Opportunities ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
M Intention of Planned Arrangments term in ISO 14001 2004 vs 2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001 Re-Certification Audit Preparation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Sidney Vianna Informational ISO 14001 Certificates Top 15 Countries - 1999 to 2017 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 - I need a format for Design & Development planning ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
I Environmental Policy Content - ISO 14001 Clause 5.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
Q ISO 14001:2015 accredited but import most product - CB Raised minor NC on Life Cycle Perspective ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
Q Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S Necessity of Legal Register to conform to ISO 9001, ISO 14001, IATF 16949 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
B Integrated management system - ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 - Is possible to have a joint certificate covering both standards? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
P ISO 14001 - Looking for a Gap Analysis Template ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
K ISO 14001:2015 clause 8.1 on outsourced processes ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
J Facility Expansion and ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
M PDCA cycle - Process mapping - Environmental ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
A Operating criteria for production processes - ISO 14001 Cl. 8.1 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
Sidney Vianna Support & Guidance Material for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 0
C ISO 14001 vs Existing Quality System - How to keep them separate? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
K ISO 14001:2015 certification for two locations required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
A ISO 14001:2015 transition from the 2004 standard ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Q Risk/Opportunity in a combined ISO 9001 & 14001 System ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
Q Risk & opportunity assessment - ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom