ISO 14001 Internal Auditor - Required / Necessary Experience and Training

N

Nette

#1
Does an internal auditor have to have been training in auditing ISO 14001?

The reason I am asking is due to personnel leaving the company we are very thin on the ground of trained ISO 14001 auditors. Whilst we will address this issue in the mean time would it be acceptable for our auditors who are trained for TS16949 to carryout internal environmental audits?

Thank you.

Nette
 
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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

Does an internal auditor have to have been training in auditing ISO 14001?

The reason I am asking is due to personnel leaving the company we are very thin on the ground of trained ISO 14001 auditors. Whilst we will address this issue in the mean time would it be acceptable for our auditors who are trained for TS16949 to carryout internal environmental audits?

Thank you.

Nette

I would expect that the next person that would be performing the Internal Audits would have some understanding of 14001 and Auditing techniques.

Do the procedures, of your company, require them to take an "official" training class for internal auditing?
 
R

ralphsulser

#3
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

Does an internal auditor have to have been training in auditing ISO 14001?

The reason I am asking is due to personnel leaving the company we are very thin on the ground of trained ISO 14001 auditors. Whilst we will address this issue in the mean time would it be acceptable for our auditors who are trained for TS16949 to carryout internal environmental audits?

Thank you.

Nette
I think that if the person is trained to audit ISO/TS16949 and has knowledge about the requirements of ISO14001, then they should be able to audit. You have requirements, procedures, targets, reports, results, etc. If you have an internal procedure that specifies specific training to ISO14001, then you may want to ammend it to allow temporary auditors. But, I think this should only be temporary until you can get them trained to ISO14001 internal auditing. Or if you have others who are trained to audit ISO14001 then have the TS16949 auditor audit accompany with them as part of their training.:2cents:
 
N

Nette

#4
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

No our procedure does not state that they have to be trained to audit ISO 14001.

Guess that I am just being careful.

I like the idea of getting the TS16949 auditors to go with the ISO 14001 auditors as part of their training.

Thank you. :thanx:
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

No our procedure does not state that they have to be trained to audit ISO 14001.

Guess that I am just being careful.

I like the idea of getting the TS16949 auditors to go with the ISO 14001 auditors as part of their training.

Thank you. :thanx:
If it works for you, great!
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

I'd say go for it except for one very tiny, inconsequential item. Unless they are trained and are aware of requirements how can you show their competence?

The effectiveness of your audits may be a good KPI, but how are they to understand the importance of significant aspects and their relationship to multiple elements of the standard unless they are trained and follow the trail?

Wouldn't it be nice if they actually had some knowledge of the relationship of 4.4.2 and 4.4.7 and why they are important and tied together?

Wouldn't it beneficial for them to be able to follow the regulatory compliance process from 4.2 to 4.3.2 to 4.4.2 to 4.4.3 to 4.4.6 to 4.5.1 to 4.5.2.1 to 4.6 and possibly as they apply 4.3.1, 4.4.1, 4.4.4, 4.4.5, & 4.5.4 to assess its effectiveness?

These are just a couple of those wee issues.
 
Last edited:

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#7
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

No our procedure does not state that they have to be trained to audit ISO 14001.

Guess that I am just being careful.

I like the idea of getting the TS16949 auditors to go with the ISO 14001 auditors as part of their training.

Thank you. :thanx:

Regardless of what your procedure does or does not state, the standard requires them to be competent. Randy makes some very good points in his reply.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

I'll reciprocate and thank you in return:thanx:

I've found out and hammer home in my training courses that competence goes beyond the folks in production, it extends to "ALL" who can impact customer satisfaction/product quality, the environmental performance, or effect risk within respective systems.

Folks that need to have competence relevant to their "Roles" that are any times overlooked include:

Top Management
Management Reps
Personnel who review and approve system documents (technical competence in subject matter)
Personnel who deliver training
Auditors
Personnel who peform maintenance
Personnel involved in calibration
Pesonnel involved in all aspects of Product Realization
Personnel who perform regulatory compliance evaluation
Personel involved in risk assessment
Personnel who manage any activity within the scope of the respective MS
and possibly others.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

Technical competence in subject matter, yes definitely. :applause:

The thing about auditing to ISO 14001 is understanding the aspects' potential impact on the environment, and through that the impact on life forms like humans.

A rudimentary competency in chemistry, safety, HAZMAT, and/or industrial hygiene can help. There are books, but workplace training and experience with chemicals and their handling has helped me to make a decent showing of myself. I'm not in any means expert enough to manage such a program on my own, but I know what I am looking at. An auditor ought to.

Why don't you check and see if your local government offers, or can guide you to a path for HAZMAT handling? The U.S. Department of Transportation has a special certificate for trucking HAZMAT, and relative training is available to achieve such permission to transport the materials. Maybe you can find a fairly expedient path to the knowledge you'd arguably need for ISO 14001 auditing to be done well.
 
#10
Re: Internal Auditor - Experience and Training

Dear Friend,

If you have established an EMS according to ISO-14001, then I would expect that the internal audit is conducted by auditors qualified to conduct the internal audit (as per qualifications prescribed in ISO-19011) according to ISO-19011. A certification body is supposed to seek objective evidence of (a) competence, experience, training and independence of auditors (e.g. including any reference to ISO 19011and/or to programmes for the registration of audit personnel);(b) auditing procedure and methodology, in particular the extent of the audit (e.g.including any reference to ISO 19011) and (c) references and standards (e.g. ISO 19011) (Text in Italics is adapted from IAF FG 66_2) during the Stage II Certification audit of the organization. If the auditors carrying out the internal audit are not qualified as given above, you may run the risk of certification auditor questioning the validity of the internal audit. Since internal audits can be carried out by "external" qualified auditors, I would, in a situation like yours, invite qualified auditors from outside the organization to conduct the "internal" ISO-14001 audit. I have been practicing this for the last eight years as I do not have any qualified ISO-14001 auditor to carry out internal audit of my ISO-14001 certified organizations (2 persons and 10 person organizations).

With best regards,

Ramakrishnan
 
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