ISO 14001 - Need to learn YESTERDAY!!!

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Question ALL - Can "management review" (MR) be counted if done via e-mail to all of management? It has it's own "meeting notes" and attendance roster.
I sent the request for Aspects out to all the department managers, can that count as some sort of, but not fully, as a MR? They are involved in, and aware of what is going on?

The Management Review is traditionally handled as a meeting, but it does not have to be that way: The standard does not require a meeting per se. Just a review of the system.

/Claes

 

[Gryphon3e]

Question ALL - Can "management review" (MR) be counted if done via e-mail to all of management? It has it's own "meeting notes" and attendance roster.

Ah the joys of time zones, excuse trady response.

As has been mentioned yes you can.

However, what you are doing is cheating. Understandably, but cheating none the less. The idea is to get everone round the table to do the review...The auditor will accept it but it is only a short term cheat, you need to do this or the whole system has no validity. The comittment from the top is vital, and that means top level needs to actually BE in control.

What I do, and this is an accepted 'cheat', is hijack existing management meetings. They are already getting together for other things...just do the review then in bite sized pieces over 12 months.

I take a portion of the requirements of the management review meeting and I put it on the monthly management meeting agenda. They have no idea they are conducting the review yet it still counts. As it is a documented and agreed review.

Part of my philosophy, which is EMS is part of everyone's jobs right now and forever. It is not something 'green', it is normal, it is not environmental it is purely good and normal management practice, and operational practice and part of everyone elses job all the time.

In this case you will need to draw everyones responses together and write what is effectively minutes to the virtual 'email' or sharepoint meetings.

That way you are not challenging the auditor too much with how you have done it. Keep emails as evidence. More work for you and a BAD precident to set though.

Put together a post audit plan that has the review requirement done over the year, spead the pain, spread the weight, keep up momentum.

 

[drgnrider]

As has been mentioned yes you can.

However, what you are doing is cheating. ... The comittment from the top is vital, and that means top level needs to actually BE in control.

...just do the review then in bite sized pieces over 12 months.

Not trying to "cheat" the system. I AM trying to make sure my shortened time line is achieved. I have sent e-mails to all of management and the Factory Director (top of our chain) and some management have responded. I'm just trying to see if I could use some of these communications as on-going management involvement/review.

 

[Randy]

Shortened time line?

Contact CB do the dog and pony stuff, talk cash, and get a contract signed?
1-2 weeks (Late Feb now)

CB has to find a qualified auditor that is available...Now if there is some crazy stuff going on at you location the requires specific technical expertise this may be a challenge..As in my case, I possess a couple technical codes for environmental that very few others do and 1 in particular that no other staff person for my employer does, and I ma completely booked until late July...Ooop, busted no April cert if that's the case......But lets say they find an auditor....next step

Schedule the Stage 1....Possibly 2-3 weeks at the earliest, now your into mid-March and if and only if, Stage 1 goes OK the next step is Stage 2

Stage 2....Because of accreditation rules they like to see some type of time lapse between Stage 1 and Stage 2, with the exception of one of our friends in another Thread the Time lapse can be a week or 2, normally we go 30-90 days from Stage 1.....Ooops again, busted because it's now April at a minimum....But wait it gets better

Supposed during Stage 1 a serious flaw is identified, that for want of a better term we'll call MAJOR NONCONFORMITY.....Ooooops busted, you can't get recommended for Stage 2 with a MAJOR on your plate, it's gotta be addressed before Stage 2 is recommended (not completed or closed, but addressed to such a point that it could at least be reduced to a minor)...Guess what? April is in your rear view mirror

OK, let's say that Stage 1 and Stage 2 were successful, guess what? The auditor doesn't leave a copy of a cert on your desk, nooooo, he only makes recommendation for certification, now the report, supporting paperwork and all that fun stuff has to go through some QA/Tec review process to make sure all the ducks neatly line up.....Busted because that takes a couple weeks as well...By now you might be into May....If there are no problems and then and only then, after everything is done the CB's senior management has to bless it all and issue a certificate

At best, regardless of CB (a good honest one playing by recognized AB rules and 17021) you might get a cert by June....So no matter what your management wants, hopes, wishes or demands, if you want a cert that actually has recognized value they gotta be made to understand April won't happen, except for flowers to bloom....Or they can check on Craigslist.

My compatriots most likely will agree.

 

[drgnrider]

If I made anyone think we were just starting this process, I apologize.

Our process was started months ago. It's just that in the middle of it, our EHS Manager had to leave abruptly and now I am trying to fill-in in his absence and play catch-up. Our consultants, who have done extensive environmental programs for us (SWP3, SPCC, regulation compliance consulting, etc), are very familiar with our facility and feel this time table is possible... but we can't afford any more hiccups!

Shortened time line?

Contact CB do the dog and pony stuff, talk cash, and get a contract signed?
1-2 weeks (Late Feb now)

Randy, I wholeheartedly agree, if we had just started this process, I would not have accepted this well-shortened time table.

I've done the dog and pony show, plead, begged, etc. and got a bonafide respected CB (the one who issued our 9001) that is willing to take the chance, since: 1) we have used consultants (not in-house people) from the start who started the process awhile ago, 2) our documents are templated off our sister-plant who is already 14001 certified by the same CB, and 3) our 9001 audits are very clean.

CB has Stage 1 auditor lined-up and is looking for a second auditor for the Stage 2. There is only two weeks between S1 & S2, so HOPEFULLY we have nothing major to fix. This is a "hail-Mary", but for us, there is no other alternative for us, we have to make the attempt to meet the imposed deadline. :mg:

 

[Randy]

If I made anyone think we were just starting this process, I apologize.

Our process was started months ago. It's just that in the middle of it, our EHS Manager had to leave abruptly and now I am trying to fill-in in his absence and play catch-up. Our consultants, who have done extensive environmental programs for us (SWP3, SPCC, regulation compliance consulting, etc), are very familiar with our facility and feel this time table is possible... but we can't afford any more hiccups!




Randy, I wholeheartedly agree, if we had just started this process, I would not have accepted this well-shortened time table.

I've done the dog and pony show, plead, begged, etc. and got a bonafide respected CB (the one who issued our 9001) that is willing to take the chance, since: 1) we have used consultants (not in-house people) from the start who started the process awhile ago, 2) our documents are templated off our sister-plant who is already 14001 certified by the same CB, and 3) our 9001 audits are very clean.

CB has Stage 1 auditor lined-up and is looking for a second auditor for the Stage 2. There is only two weeks between S1 & S2, so HOPEFULLY we have nothing major to fix. This is a "hail-Mary", but for us, there is no other alternative for us, we have to make the attempt to meet the imposed deadline. :mg:

Uh-oh, me thinks I may have mispoke myself (I had better check my schedule)

OK, just did and it ain't me................:ca:

 

[drgnrider]

I want to say thanks to everyone for your support and assistance. We were able to squeak through with only four minors. The auditor was pretty thorough on digging in the paperwork and with your assistance, I was able to ask the questions of our consultants before the auditor asked me.

Procedurally, we were decent. Our problems are mainly in: validation of training, record retention, and succession planning. Our EHS Manager has a very good environmental consultant, (that he continually uses), so they were able to plug the major holes in his absence.

Thanks for the "crash-course" in ISO-14001... couldn't have done this without everyone here on "The Cove".

 

[TPMB4]

Read the first few posts then fast forward to this last post to see what happened. Really pleased for you achieving this tall order. I hope they appreciate it in your next pay review!!!

 

[drgnrider]

Pay raise is still uncertain... this is the start: my "promotion" (that I was unaware of) hinged on our "Recommendation for Certification". My old title was "Calibration Coordinator" with the side duty of QMR; my new title is "ISO Management Representative and Calibration Coordinator". Totally new position created just because of this. Going from scale 4 to 6 (highest).