ISO 14001 vs Existing Quality System - How to keep them separate?

#1
I am having a hard time finding information about keeping our current, cumbersome, complicated quality system (IATF 16949) and our new ISO 14001 system (which is in development) separate.

Our quality system contains our manufacturing processes and materials/product recycling. How can I say in the EMS that our processes and materials/product recycling are controlled without crossing the two and avoiding a cross audit??
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Welcome to The Cove. :bigwave:

How can I say in the EMS that our processes and materials/product recycling are controlled without crossing the two and avoiding a cross audit??
You shouldn't. Any business process has multiple implications (quality, occupational safety, environmental impact, etc...) If you want sustainable processes and systems you HAVE TO find ways to embed your QMS, EMS, OHSMS, etc... into your BUSINESS PROCESSES.

A COMPETENT, knowledgeable, professional and serious external auditor MUST realize the scope of the audit and avoid delving into areas that are not part of their assessment.

You SHOULD NEVER design YOUR SYSTEM for what an external auditor could do, because you are the one who has to live with, support and improve the system day in, day out. The auditor role is to assess the system against a set of requirements. If s/he deviates from the scope of engagement, they are the problem, not your system.

Good luck.
 
#3
So, it is ok for me to put on our Impacts list that our manufacturing materials/defective product recycling is managed by our quality system?

Thank you.
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
#4
Good day CL Stewart;
The short answer is "yes", it's ok.
As mentioned by Sidney Vianna, the system should work for you and your organization. A simple/integrated management system (9001; IATF, 14001, etc..etc..) will help your current teams (and more importantly, FUTURE team members) understand and locate the information necessary from your integrated management system. I am concerned by your comment "...cumbersome, complicated, quality system...". If I may be so bold, this condition is usually a result of an organization not understanding the rule and intent of the standard, and, therefore, adding "layers" of documents and activity beyond what is in the best interest of the organization. When I am working with an organization I spend a lot of time "reverse engineering" (i.e. understanding what the organization is ALREADY doing and then identifying that in alignment with the requirements of the governing international standard(s) , instead of creating new and burdensome (non-beneficial) documents and methods. Even before the introduction of the HLS I would integrate management systems for the purpose of creating a comprehensive, streamlined, and concise management system. The primary international standards are now established under the HLS format, making integration easier than ever.
Consider this:
Procedures (who-what-when);
Minimalist documentation that is comprehensive of governing standards AND the company's corporate intent.
Work instructions (how);
Created only when necessary and providing job detail. These can be referenced by their umbrella procedure(s) and become the place where IATF and 14001 (in your example) truly separate.
Forms (result-record):
Reference by their governing instructions and used to log the required/needed records.

Feel free to DM me or reach out on Linkedin @ https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-abnet-b14ba029/ if you have any specific questions I can help with.

Be well.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Q Implementing ISO 14001 into an existing ISO/TS 16949 Quality Management System IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
G ISO 14001 - Recording Competence, Training and Awareness in Existing Staff Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 8
A Question on ISO 14001:2015 - Are annual audits required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
J ISO 14001 revision process ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Raffy ISO 14001 9.2.2 Internal Audit Programme Content Internal Auditing 3
Jacquie Collins 6 Risks and Opportunities ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
M Intention of Planned Arrangments term in ISO 14001 2004 vs 2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001 Re-Certification Audit Preparation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Sidney Vianna Informational ISO 14001 Certificates Top 15 Countries - 1999 to 2017 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 - I need a format for Design & Development planning ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
I Environmental Policy Content - ISO 14001 Clause 5.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
Q ISO 14001:2015 accredited but import most product - CB Raised minor NC on Life Cycle Perspective ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
QAQT Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S Necessity of Legal Register to conform to ISO 9001, ISO 14001, IATF 16949 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
B Integrated management system - ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 - Is possible to have a joint certificate covering both standards? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 6
P ISO 14001 - Looking for a Gap Analysis Template ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
K ISO 14001:2015 clause 8.1 on outsourced processes ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
J Facility Expansion and ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
M PDCA cycle - Process mapping - Environmental ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
A Operating criteria for production processes - ISO 14001 Cl. 8.1 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
Sidney Vianna Support & Guidance Material for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 0
K ISO 14001:2015 certification for two locations required? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
A ISO 14001:2015 transition from the 2004 standard ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
Q Risk/Opportunity in a combined ISO 9001 & 14001 System ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
Q Risk & opportunity assessment - ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 1
Q Correspondence between ISO 14001:2015 & OHSAS 18001:2007 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
R Sequence and Interaction - Combined for both ISO 9001:2015 and EMS 14001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
R ISO 14001:2015 Life Cycle Perspective ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
R ISO 9001:2015 and EMS 14001:2015 combined audit checklist General Auditing Discussions 5
A ISO 14001:2015 transition audit - Major NC due to the procedure and audit plan ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
Q ISO 14001:2015 Clause 6.1: Actions to address Risks & Opportunities ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
Sidney Vianna IAF Ruling - No more ISO 9001:2008 nor ISO 14001:2004 audits after 2018-03-15 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
A EMS - ISO 14001:2015 Implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
B ISO 14001:2015 4.3 - How to make the scope of the EMS available to interested parties ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
Sidney Vianna One year to ISO 9001 and 14001 transition deadline. ISO & IAF communique' ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
D Is anyone changing their ISO 14001:2004 EMS Policy? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
L ISO 14001:2004 - Legal and Other Requirements ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
B Moving (Transition) From ISO 14001:2004 to ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
T ISO 14001:2015 cover more than 1 company or business unit? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 13
F ISO 14001:2015 EMS Procedures and Form Examples wanted ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
S ISO 14001 Clause 4.1 Organization and its context - What does an Auditor expect? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
B ISO 14001:2015 Aspects and Impacts: Haze occurrence (Supplier related) ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
S ISO 14001:2015 Implementation in my company ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 13
M ISO 14001 - Should we list the standard itself in clause 4.3.2 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
T Has anyone been through the ISO 14001:2015 process? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 12
V What are the changes in ISO 14001:2015? Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 3
C ISO 14001 Recertification without setting Targets ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
L The ink is dry(ing) on the revision of ISO 14001:2015. “Is the payoff worth the price Imported Legacy Blogs 0
T Suggestions for Internal Audit OFI for ISO 14001 Internal Auditing 2
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom