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ISO 45001:2018 (5.4 - Consultation and participation of workers)

#11
Hello !

Sidney, I did not see the point of creating an international OS&HMS standard when there was already an excellent one at the ILO level. In any case, I am happy that users of the British standard have quickly adopted ISO 45001. Indeed this standard has been significantly aligned with ILO-OSH (see ISO / ILO collaboration, even if it has resulted in a certain tension) by adopting its relevance and consistency for different aspects. These two international OSH standards are more demanding than the old British one (example: consultation and participation of workers we are discussing).

As yourself I know that our processes do not always have the expected results or that good results are never definitively acquired. But when a process malfunctions, it does not means that the organization should neglect this process by inventing pretexts. In an organization if the feedback from (particularly "non-managerial") workers consultation process is poor due to a "disengaged and / or cynical and disillusioned workforce" (!), Isn't it typically a real leadership problem of top management ? I'm afraid this top management will only have workers it deserves ... (starting perhaps with the fact that it never "consults" their opinion?). An alleged Chinese saying goes "fish allways rots by head".

Have a good day.
 
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Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
Hi everyone,
I was wondering what does the standard mean under d) emphasize the consultation of non-managerial workers on item # 8,"planning, establishing, implementing and maintaining an audit programme? What evidence do I need to show to an auditor to support the requirement? Please advice.
Thank you very much in advance.
Best,
Raffy
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
In an organization if the feedback from (particularly "non-managerial") workers consultation process is poor due to a "disengaged and / or cynical and disillusioned workforce" (!), Isn't it typically a real leadership problem of top management ? I'm afraid this top management will only have workers it deserves ... (starting perhaps with the fact that it never "consults" their opinion?

I'm not sure I fully agree with that statement. Would top management be at fault if they neglected the opinions and ideas of non-management level people? Absolutely. But just as often, I've seen that some non-management level employees don't want to participate. No matter how sincere the top management request for feedback is. That's for many human reasons.

Some are just not able to speak up. Embarrassed or whatever. Even with a confidential suggestion system.

And there's always the "They aren't paying me for that". Or, "do I get a raise for contributing?"

What do you do to countermeasure that?

I think what Sydney was getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that management can't stand idly by waiting for employee feedback. You have to get your system up and going, for the health and safety of all who are interested parties. Also, participation and consultation is ongoing. Top management may get contributions along the way, allowing for improvement.
 
#14
Hello,

Indeed we can wonder about the real interest of the consultation of the non-management workers in particular on the audit program or some other aspects of the OS & HMS ... But seeking the reasons for the difficulties of this consultation (requirement c) of article 5.4) does not aim to abandon these consultation requirements, but on the contrary to deal with these difficulties (this is the second part of c) 5.4).

In this case, it is not very complicated to reasonably carry out this kind of consultation during one of the usual OH&S staff meetings (meeting with summary report), or even better during one of the meetings of staff representatives (regulatory or voluntary representation) mentioned at the beginning of article 5.4.

The consultation and participation of workers (management or non) is a particular need of OS&H management. What the lists of consultation-participation items ( d) and e) of in 5.4) is that, fundamentally, the workers must be involved in all the choices and operations of OS&HMS (this is an enrichment). But the top management remains the only one to decide of course !

"Emphasizing" on the participation-consultation of non-management workers on the entire OS & HMS in fact (!) Seems to me just a way to compensate for the fact that many top-management often tend to neglect the point of view non-management workers in OS&H ...

It is the use and testimony of all these opportunities for consultation and participation of non-management workers in particular on OS&H aspects that an auditor will perceive without even needing to document all the evidence.

Best regards.
 
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