ISO 50001 Interpretation of section 3.3.9 (Outsourcing)

#1
Hi there (my first post!),

I am currently integrating the ISO 50001 standard, but following a discussion with an auditor, I could do with some guidance/clarification. I also couldn't find any similar posts using the search button.

(As a quick summary!) I have completed our energy review, established baseline data and have created a system for reviewing and updating our EnPI's. So we are quite far into our EnMS development.

However, I was recently told that the energy consumption of our sub-contractors (mainly haulage) has to be accounted for in our energy review. I believed this would be out the scope due to their energy use whilst delivering to be out of our immediate control. Due to this, I am slightly confused as the best way to monitor this going forward, or what the standard requires me to do to account for these energy uses. So my questions relate to how to interpret section 3.3.9 Outsourcing

A few issues with this are apparent to me:
  1. Can I exclude subcontracted work from my scope?
  2. Do I simply need to monitor subcontractor energy use for say, Haulage, (as an example by asking them to send me a spreadsheet detailing the litres of petrol consumed whilst on a delivery for us per month), and documenting this data per year on the same spreadsheet that I use to measure the businesses total energy use?
  3. Do I need to implement them into site's EnPI?
  4. Do I just need a commitment to use the most efficient trucks and routes where possible going forward etc?

Thank you in advance for those that take the time to read and reply, I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Ben
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#2
However, I was recently told that the energy consumption of our sub-contractors (mainly haulage) has to be accounted for in our energy review. I believed this would be out the scope due to their energy use whilst delivering to be out of our immediate control.
Whoever told you that, is wrong. The second to the last paragraph of ISO 50001:2018, 4.3 clearly stipulates:

"...The organization shall ensure that it has the authority to control its energy efficiency, energy use and energy consumption within the scope and boundaries. The organization shall not exclude an energy type within the scope and boundaries..."

Although you can INFLUENCE a subcontractor towards energy efficiency improvement, you cannot control it.
 
#3
Hi Sidney, thanks for your reply.

The issue we face is that if these sub-contractors are exclusively delivering our product, using traffic routes that we provide, then technically aren't we dictating the energy use of their vehicles?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#4
In my opinion, you are not controlling their energy use. You are influencing it. The degree of influence is high, but not control. If you start sliding on this slippery slope of allowing scope creepage over your EnMS, it is an endless process. Today, it will be the haulage vendor, tomorrow, someone will try to convince you that the landscaper vendor is part of your EnMS.

But, good luck to you. Not many people here to discuss ISO 50001 and EnMS's. Hopefully other people will chime in.
 
#5
I agree with that, and I feel that trying to collate this information would take an awful lot of time for not very much gain. Especially when a company can do very little to control a sub-contractors energy use except declare that energy conscious businesses will be used going forward.

To play devils advocate, however. If this wasn't tracked, could a company going for ISO 50001 simply begin to sub contract all of its deliveries, claiming an energy improvement from the year before, when really the energy consumption has just been offset to sub-contractors?
 

x-files

Involved In Discussions
#6
However, I was recently told that the energy consumption of our sub-contractors (mainly haulage) has to be accounted for in our energy review.
In my opinion, the auditor was right. Energy review is a complex approach, and it just has to document (be aware of) the amount of energy you are using for such important process like "delivering your product", outsourced or not. That's the absolute mandatory process in your organization, and you can make (change) decisions over years to outsource it or to have your own transport fleet.
The auditor who told you that, had this in mind:
8.1 Operational planning and control: [...]
The organization shall ensure that outsourced SEUs or processes related to its SEUs (see 6.3) are controlled (see 8.3).
You have to include that (outsourced) energy consumption in formula to figure out is it SEU or not, and to control it at least by 8.3.

And now, forget the standard. You are establishing the energy management system, not to satisfy auditors, but for your organization benefits. Do you want your system to be blind on the energy use and consumption of product delivery process? I don't think so... At least that can be your own requirement to make smart decisions in the future (joke: electric vehicles, planes, drons, horses )...
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Moncia Implementing ISO 50001 Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 21
S Requirements to obtain ISO 50001 Certification ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 2
V Generic ISO 50001 checklist Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 6
B Lessons Learned Implementing ISO 50001 (Chemical Engineering Progress) Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 0
A Integrated Management Systems - ISO 50001 and ISO 9001 possible? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
R ISO 50001 - Manual and instructions Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 8
x-files [Thermal Power plant KOSTOLAC, SERBIA] Sucessfully certified to ISO 50001 Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 1
R ISO 50001 Awareness Training Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 9
W What is ISO 50001 (energy management systems)? Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 1
D Combined Quality Manual for ISO 9001, ISO 14001, ISO 50001 and OHSAS 18001 Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 11
A ISO 50001 Implementation Documentation Required Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 6
G How to approach ISO 50001 Legal Requirements Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 1
R Energy Baseline in ISO 50001:2011 Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 1
A Auditor Man-Day table for ISO 50001 (Energy Management Systems) Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 3
S What is the future of ISO 50001 EnMS (Energy Management Systems)? Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 3
C Six months data enough for ISO 50001 implementation? Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 6
S Is ISO 50001 Certification useful for an Auto Components Manufacturer? Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 7
S Is a Stage 1 Audit required for ISO 50001 Certification? Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 1
M ISO 50001 Certification News - DNV Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 2
M ISO 50001 Energy Management Lead Auditor Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
M Free Webinars on ISO 50001 Energy Management - 2011 and 2012 Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 6
I EN 16001 or ISO 50001 - Which way would you go? Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 5
Randy ISO 50001 Energy Management Systems - Requirements Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 29
Sidney Vianna ISO 50001 released June 15 2011 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 22
K Applicable ISO 9001 clauses for Human Resources? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
C Clinical Trial using Prototype devices (EU MDR & ISO 14155) EU Medical Device Regulations 3
I IEC 60812 or ISO 14971 for PFMEA? What should we use? ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 3
I ISO 9000 Where to Start ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 44
M ISO 13485 consultants and auditors with design oriented focus ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
D ISO 9001:2015 Internal Audit Check Sheet ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
H Does ISO state in anyway that we MUST keep physical first piece parts? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
B ISO cl. 5.3 - Ensuring that the integrity of the QMS is maintained ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
A ISO 9001- any advise please with transitioning from a paper based system to eQMS and multi site scope ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
L ISO 20417 crucial changes Other Medical Device Related Standards 1
R ISO 27001 Mandatory Policies , Procedures and Records IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
R Use of historical version of ISO standards CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
I QMS and ISO 9001 Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 11
E ISO 17025 Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) ISO 17025 related Discussions 5
A ISO 9001:2015 8.5.6 and 7.5.3 Document Control Questions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
J ISO 9001:2015 Clause 8.2.3 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
LabCat Internal SOP for a validated (ISO) method? ISO 17025 related Discussions 2
L Confusion about ISO 14644 Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
GStough Audit Nonconformances (?) for Suppliers Not Registered to ISO and No Supplier Quality Agreement Exists General Auditing Discussions 24
S Brexit ISO 13485:2016 + Corrigendum - What does a UKCA DoC require? EU Medical Device Regulations 2
M Is complete testing required as per ISO 10993 for materials used in orthopedic implants or is literature review route possible Other Medical Device Related Standards 3
Aliken Recommendation for the ISO 13485 certification company ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
ISO-tired ISO 13485: file structure overview ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
J ISO 10993-1:2018 Format to Perform Risk Management Process US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 1
B ISO 9001:2015 Registered Companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
C ISO Cert and Parent Company is not Certified ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8

Similar threads

Top Bottom