ISO 9000 in Mom and Pop Shops - What are the simple concepts?

[Laura M]

To reinterate - you can do it yourself. Come here for help when you need it.

I am working with a Mom-Pop right now as a consultant, and they need it. I tend to be the trigger to get things done - otherwise it wouldn't. They aren't capable of interpretting the standard to their business. But if they were, it would be better for them to do themselves. Also, sometimes an outsider can help dispell myths. If someone convinced the org that all the procedures are necessary - they may think YOU don't know. One thing you may want to do is hire a consultant/internal auditor after you've done most of it yourself, just for a day or two.

I believe it can be done. It sounds like you have the knowledge.

Laura

 

[Marc]

It is not only possible, many people who have visited here (and many who haven't for that matter) have done it.

Not rocket science. And the reason for the forums. In some ways I'm cutting my own consulting throat by having provided these forums for so long, but it all evens out.

 

[Randy Stewart]

You Can Do It!

Training and skills verification can cover your set up..

Erik this is good advice. You will be surprised how much documentation this really covers. I also started at a screw machine shop (approximately 250 employees) and learned alot. From my experience it wasn't the shop floor that needed all the help, it was management. You may want to spend time on Management Review, Contract Review (Customer Focus) and Change Management. The processes on the floor required a little adjusting but nothing major, it was how it got to the floor and how it was shipped that really needed help.

Welcome to the Cove, hope to hear some good progress reports soon.

 

[energy]

Re: You Can Do It!

Randy Stewart said:

You may want to spend time on Management Review, Contract Review (Customer Focus) and Change Management.

Randy,

What is Change Management? Or, is that a suggestion? Jus askin!

 

[Randy Stewart]

What is Change Management? Or, is that a suggestion?

There is an emphasis (at least up here) on managing change. I know from personnal experience that Ford is getting heavy into it. So to answer your question:
1) It is managing engineering changes, customer driven changes in suppliers, response to quote changes, response to customer requests, etc.

2) It is a suggestion because of how it is being treated under clause 7 especially 7.2.2 in ISO 9k and 7.1.4 in 16949.

This little statement "including those changes caused by any supplier" is a killer. Basically engineering has to follow up on any change to the product to verify that theres no impact on their product. We had a supplier change a reinforcement beam and it was up to us to tell the customer (OEM) that they needed a suffix roll over when we found the door wouldn't assemble anymore.

I'm getting concerned that as the B3 have more and more influence over the Technical Spec or standard, the tier 1's and 2's are going to be forced to incur more and more costs because of the lower level suppliers. Suppliers that were dictated by the OEM in the first place.

But what else is new.

 

[apestate]

Thank you all for your responses. You have all answered my questions.

It is good to know that someone who wants to do this themselves can, and should.

I think about the quality of ISO 9000 applications when I see some of the work our colleagues and competitors do. Yesterday I got a phone call in the morning from a sales person asking me about my IT needs, which are nil. Two hours later I got a call from a person who said they were from the internal audit department of that company, and she wanted to verify that I had answered the original questions asked by the sales person. Simple as that.

One of our customers is always warning us about their I.S.O. system and how vicious it can be.

A competitor of even smaller size seems to think compliance means everything has to be locked away in cages, and that a tool room needs to be built and someone has to staff it.

I'm glad to have the resources I have. Juran's Quality Handbook, ISO 9000 Compendium 9th edition, AIAG manuals, and this website. Premium file access here is immeasurably more valuable than the documentation template I bought from an internet consultation house, and it was 1/4 the cost.

I have another question for you all.

Randy Stewart says:

"I'm getting concerned that as the B3 have more and more influence over the Technical Spec or standard, the tier 1's and 2's are going to be forced to incur more and more costs because of the lower level suppliers. "

Could someone explain that to a five year old? We supply parts to a company who supplies finished assemblies directly to Big Three. What tier level supplier are we, and what does automotive control over the standard mean for us, at whatever level we are at?

 

[Randy Stewart]

No Problem

What tier level supplier are we, and what does automotive control over the standard mean for us, at whatever level we are at?

Suppliers that ship directly to the assembly plants are considered Tier 1, suppliers that ship to Tier 1's are considered a Tier 2.

The standards and specifications (TS16949) are written by the international bodies with representation by the B3. QS-9000 was written with automotive emphasis, however with the referenced ISO 9000 it had the "basic business" flavor. I don't mind the auto emphasis at all, I don't want the B3 pushing more specs at the suppliers (i.e. Q1, Pentastar, etc.). That's all I'm saying. We supply the B3 and expect their influence in the business, they just need to leave the registrars alone. Just look at whats happened to QS for an example.

Keep on keeping on and remember that ISO & TS do not prohibit the use of reason!

 

[Randy]

As an aside, you might want to take a short course on implementation and documentation. Don't go crazy like some and take a Lead Auditor course or anything like that. A 2-3 day event may run $500-$800 not counting expenses and travel. You want to find one that has a good deal of hands on type exercises. In your area of the country (within a couple hundred miles anyway) you should be able to locate a public course given by a reputable (whatever that means) organization. Some of the folks that participate here (like me) deliver those for providers, so we can all offer up suggestions.

You can definitely do what you need to do without a consultant (cutting my throat and Marc's to as well as others) if you pace yourself and don't try to eat the whole elephant in one bite. Definitely use the Cove as a resource, you have tons of folks here that basically just like others to be successful and expect nothing in return. Listen to what they say (even Lucinda ), these folks know what's what.

 

[apestate]

Is it necessary to have a locked space for non-conforming product?

According to plan and written procedure, an area of the floor central to production and shipping will be painted and possibly roped off. I think this will adequately identify and control the product and preclude its original intended use.

I have heard of debate on this matter.

I wonder if an auditor will agree that non-conforming product is controlled and precluded from original intended use. Would it be necessary to lock away out of spec parts from production employees who may have identified the product non-conformity in the first place?

 

[Randy Stewart]

What works for your company!

Back in the day, as long as everyone knew where the nc product was was acceptable (stacked in a corner, etc.). Now they look for a "designated area". As far as I'm concerned it does not have to be locked up - controlled and kept from "accidental" usage - yes. Our warehouse area is small and we use a painted section of the floor where the parts are tagged and problem description is on the tag. If you have the available space for a locked room or cage, use it, but it is not required.