ISO 9000 Where to Start

[imwilliam]

Scary stuff.

There's a book by Fred Dobb's called "9001 For Manufacturing and Assembly" and at one point he suggests that having a gap analysis done by the same person that will later audit your system might be a good idea.

I can see why, so much is left open to interpretation and passing a cert audit could very well end up being a matter of which auditor you're assigned, much more of a matter than it should be.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

so much is left open to interpretation and passing a cert audit could very well end up being a matter of which auditor you're assigned, much more of a matter than it should be.

Indeed. The inconsistency of interpretations is huge, as the competence and professionalism level of auditors and other functions at the certification bodies. Somehow, that permeates the management systems conformity assessment sector. Ironically, it is part of "standardization"

 

[imwilliam]

Indeed. The inconsistency of interpretations is huge, as the competence and professionalism level of auditors and other functions at the certification bodies. Somehow, that permeates the management systems conformity assessment sector. Ironically, it is part of "standardization"

I read another thread where you cited a document from the ISO Auditing Practices Group. It seemed so helpful and definitive that I went to their site and I found what I thought was a gold mine.

Till I read this:

The papers and presentations that make up the content of this website are not definitive. They reflect a number of different views in QMS auditing. As such, their content may not always be consistent. It is not intended that the website's content will be used as specified requirements, an industry benchmark, or as criteria that all QMS auditors, consultants or practitioners have to follow.

It's still probably a silver mine, but not the gold mine of definitiveness I was hoping for.

Risky business for a small company like mine.

 

[Funboi]

The inconsistency of interpretations is huge, as the competence and professionalism level of auditors and other functions

And consultants!

 

[Funboi]

It seemed so helpful and definitive that I went to their site and I found what I thought was a gold mine.

Don’t overlook that it’s primarily CB auditor guidance, written mainly by CB personnel, such as Charles Corrie of BSI etc. Take salt with it…

 

[Paul Simpson]

First of all, I cited 7.3 as an example that all people in the organization need to have knowledge of at least some of the standard.

You have taken a very elitist attitude about the standard. Only the elite should know how it works? Don't even attempt to write it so that a layman could understand? I'll say it again Paul, you need to climb down from your ivory tower, down to where the rubber meets the road. Where it is to be applied and used. Intentionally making it hard to understand is counterproductive and serves no legitimate purpose.

... ah, well, and there was me trying to be nice.

I did try not to point the finger. The thing about ISO standards is that they have to be written for universal, global application. This debate is confirmation that however simple you think the requirement is written there is always someone who will misunderstand a simple principle like 'awareness' and extend that into requirements that don't exist and that weren't intended by the writers.

Supporting the earlier posts about quality policy but in a different field of EMS, I was auditing a company in Ireland and asked the question about environmental policy on the shopfloor 'What does the company's environmental policy mean to you?'.

The reply came back 'It means I can go fishing at the weekend.'

When I asked for clarification, the maintenance engineer said 'My company operates fairly dirty processes and we have a wastewater treatment plant on site. We treat the water so that it goes out cleaner than when it came on-site ... and that means I can go fishing at the weekend!'

The response doesn't cover any of the 'shalls' of ISO 14001 but IMHO demonstrates great awareness on his part.

 

[ChrisM]

New to this thread which seems to have rambled and become argumentative at times.
What about, as a one-man operation, looking at the things that can affect the quality of the service/goods you are providing, for example can you meet the customer's requested timescale for delivery? Write a few words as a procedure for how you do this. Many clauses of ISO9001 may be addressable by a statement along the lines of "clause/requirement not applicable, I'm a one person organisation".

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Many clauses of ISO9001 may be addressable by a statement along the lines of "clause/requirement not applicable, I'm a one person organisation".

The decision for non applicability of a requirement has less to do with the size of operation and more to do with the actual nature of the business. On the other hand the documentation aspect can be minimized to a few items. One could make a valid claim that the system doesn’t need any stinking documented procedures because the organizational knowledge is all in the head of the owner-operator and, as long as the individual does not suffer from multiple personalities disorder, the auditor would be hard pressed to expect documented procedures.

 

[imwilliam]

The decision for non applicability of a requirement has less to do with the size of operation and more to do with the actual nature of the business. On the other hand the documentation aspect can be minimized to a few items. One could make a valid claim that the system doesn’t need any stinking documented procedures because the organizational knowledge is all in the head of the owner-operator and, as long as the individual does not suffer from multiple personalities disorder, the auditor would be hard pressed to expect documented procedures.

You think an auditor would buy that or am I setting myself up for a brawl with the auditor? I mean it is all in my head, other than inspection records, calibration records and job notes.

 

[John Broomfield]

Defend your management system with evidence of its effectiveness and you’ll have nothing to worry about.

This is exactly what your colleagues should also do instead of trying to show off their knowledge of the standard.

Only your internal auditors need to understand the standard.