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ISO 9001:1987 or 1994 - Wording of Purchasing in section 6.0

Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#11
#11
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

Sidney Vianna said:
See attached for the ISO 9001:1987 4.6 section. It does not mention an AVL. I believe that the 1994 version had something to the effect of having to keep "records of approved sub-contractors" and many people equated that to an AVL.

AS9100 requires it.
Click to expand...
The bit you posted says "The supplier shall establish and maintain records of acceptable sub-contractors," which is the genesis of approved-supplier lists.
 
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RosieA

#12
#12
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

Ah, thank you! c) is what I was looking for.

Thank you all for the help!:thanx:
 
D

db

#13
#13
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

Jim Wynne said:
The bit you posted says "The supplier shall establish and maintain records of acceptable sub-contractors," which is the genesis of approved-supplier lists.
Click to expand...
I remember back in the days of QS, one of my clients had a major fight with their auditor over this. They kept all sub-contractor (vendor) records in vendor folders in a filing cabinet. No one could purchase from a vendor, unless that vendor had a folder in the cabinet. Their procedure called out who and how folders would be added. The auditor stated that this did not meet the requirement for the AVL. When asked where the requirement was for an AVL, the auditor said it was "implied". The owner of the company, not wanting to get the auditor mad, instructed the MR to develop an AVL from the folders.

Sorry, this is sorta :topic:
 
Stijloor

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
#14
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

db said:
I remember back in the days of QS, one of my clients had a major fight with their auditor over this. They kept all sub-contractor (vendor) records in vendor folders in a filing cabinet. No one could purchase from a vendor, unless that vendor had a folder in the cabinet. Their procedure called out who and how folders would be added. The auditor stated that this did not meet the requirement for the AVL. When asked where the requirement was for an AVL, the auditor said it was "implied". The owner of the company, not wanting to get the auditor mad, instructed the MR to develop an AVL from the folders.

Sorry, this is sorta :topic:
Click to expand...
Naaah, it's not off-topic....:nope:

Sadly, misinterpretations become habits; habits become "requirements", and so it goes....:frust::frust:

Stijloor
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#15
#15
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

And, something often overlooked, is that a list, per se, is not records of acceptable sub-contractors! I'd suggest that it's the distillation of the analysis of their performance, but since anyone could type up a list, without reference of any performance - quality, delivery, quantity etc - it's just a list and doesn't actually constitute records...:notme:
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#16
#16
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

Stijloor said:
Naaah, it's not off-topic....:nope:

Sadly, misinterpretations become habits; habits become "requirements", and so it goes....:frust::frust:

Stijloor
Click to expand...
AndyN said:
And, something often overlooked, is that a list, per se, is not records of acceptable sub-contractors! I'd suggest that it's the distillation of the analysis of their performance, but since anyone could type up a list, without reference of any performance - quality, delivery, quantity etc - it's just a list and doesn't actually constitute records...:notme:
Click to expand...

I think that a good part of the blame goes to ambiguous wording in the standard; the 1987 version's "records of acceptable sub-contractors" became "quality records of acceptable subcontractors" in the 1994 version, neither one of which is enough to tell what was intended.
 
R

RosieA

#17
#17
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

I'm tracking it down because my company does use an ASL, because it was certified to the 1994 revision originally. Once there, it stayed. Today there is nothing in the language of 7.4.1 that would lead you to the need for an ASL, so someone asked why it was needed.

I just couldn't remember whether it was there in the 87 rev, or came in the 94 rev.

All that said, it's still a good idea to have one, especially when your company is multinational and not everyone has the ability to pull "files from a filing cabinet".

Thanks for the help, folks!
 
B

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#18
#18
Re: ISO 9001:1987 or 1994

RosieA said:
All that said, it's still a good idea to have one, especially when your company is multinational and not everyone has the ability to pull "files from a filing cabinet".

Thanks for the help, folks!
Click to expand...
I agree. I think it is much easier to function with one than without one in most cases.

And I might add that AS9100 does require a "register" of approved suppliers. I often see this misapplied to ISO 9001.
 
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