ISO 9001:2000 4.2.3- Quality Records, Production Travelers

J

JkelleyCDS

#1
I am currently in a pickle over this issue. During my pre-assessment audit, the auditor indicated that production travelers are quality records (which is true) and they should have an approval by engineering before release (which is not occurring).

Currently our planner does this on her own. She will generate travelers from the ERP system and inputs operations manually by referencing engineering's work instructions.

My companies ERP system is weak and the travelers printed are more for accounting/ time charge purposes, so no formal approval or revision control can be maintained.

My quick and easy corrective action is to have Engineering sign-off on these travelers before they hit the floor and add an operation to the traveler to document the engineering approval taking place. Another idea is to create flow charts associated to production processes and release them as engineering documents for the planner to follow.

Any input from people would help. I am sort of loss on how to approach this.

Thank you.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
Do you keep the travelers?

If so, I don't know about other people, but I would find it enough for the engineer to review the traveler itslf and make some mark of approval, and the date. I can't hink of a reason to have a separate record.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
I am currently in a pickle over this issue. During my pre-assessment audit, the auditor indicated that production travelers are quality records (which is true) and they should have an approval by engineering before release (which is not occurring).

Currently our planner does this on her own. She will generate travelers from the ERP system and inputs operations manually by referencing engineering's work instructions.

My companies ERP system is weak and the travelers printed are more for accounting/ time charge purposes, so no formal approval or revision control can be maintained.

My quick and easy corrective action is to have Engineering sign-off on these travelers before they hit the floor and add an operation to the traveler to document the engineering approval taking place. Another idea is to create flow charts associated to production processes and release them as engineering documents for the planner to follow.

Any input from people would help. I am sort of loss on how to approach this.

Thank you.
I guess my question/concern is: Where in ISO9001:200x requires Engineering to review shop travelers?

I don't remember seeing anything like that.
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#4
I guess my question/concern is: Where in ISO9001:200x requires Engineering to review shop travelers?

I don't remember seeing anything like that.
I see it as part of the "approval process" for work instructions.

In our shop, engineering is responsible for the creation of routers (aka work instructions). Access to this part of our company system is limited to only those individuals that have the responsibility and authority to create and make changes. This has satified our auditor for the "approval process" of work instructions.

JkelleyCDS,

Is it possible to limit access for changes to engineers only?
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
I see it as part of the "approval process" for work instructions.

In our shop, engineering is responsible for the creation of routers (aka work instructions). Access to this part of our company system is limited to only those individuals that have the responsibility and authority to create and make changes. This has satified our auditor for the "approval process" of work instructions.

JkelleyCDS,

Is it possible to limit access for changes to engineers only?
That is similar to the way we have it set-up. But, I don't think ISO9001:200x specifically requires "Engineering" to review/approve Shop Travelers, does it?

I know it requires a Documented Procedure to define the approval process.

ISO9001:2000 said:
A documented procedure shall be established to define the controls needed...

JkelleyCDS said:
My quick and easy corrective action is to have Engineering sign-off on these travelers before they hit the floor and add an operation to the traveler to document the engineering approval taking place. Another idea is to create flow charts associated to production processes and release them as engineering documents for the planner to follow.
Is this what your documented procedure states (my emphasis added)? If so, then the Auditor is correct. If not, the auditor is incorrect, in my opinion.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
I am currently in a pickle over this issue. During my pre-assessment audit, the auditor indicated that production travelers are quality records (which is true) and they should have an approval by engineering before release (which is not occurring).

Currently our planner does this on her own. She will generate travelers from the ERP system and inputs operations manually by referencing engineering's work instructions.

My companies ERP system is weak and the travelers printed are more for accounting/ time charge purposes, so no formal approval or revision control can be maintained.

My quick and easy corrective action is to have Engineering sign-off on these travelers before they hit the floor and add an operation to the traveler to document the engineering approval taking place. Another idea is to create flow charts associated to production processes and release them as engineering documents for the planner to follow.

Any input from people would help. I am sort of loss on how to approach this.

Thank you.
It would be helpful to know what information your traveller has on it. I've seen everything from inspection requirements to full BOMs on travellers, so what information is being conveyed will tell us something about the level of control that might be appropriate.
 

Ted Schmitt

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Access to this part of our company system is limited to only those individuals that have the responsibility and authority to create and make changes. This has satified our auditor for the "approval process" of work instructions.

JkelleyCDS,

Is it possible to limit access for changes to engineers only?
This is exactly how our system works. Only the responsible people with the competence to alter or create have access to the respective document, procedure, Work instruction or any other document of our quality system.
 
Q

qualitytrec

#9
I have to say i am with Coury on this. Unless the form has a signature block for eng. or your procedure calls out his/her approval then I do not see the shall and would argue that the issue constitutes the approval and that the form is for accounting purposes.

JMHO,
Mark
 
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