ISO 9001:2000 Implementation Project: finished procedures

[gooofii]

hello every body
am rewrite a QM for my company for the BSI...i stoped in the process for the Control of Sub Contract labour. to be honest the company was ignoring this process. so if any one can give me ideas about wht should be the rules and regulations for accepting a subcontracts as {water tank builders}..


Thank you for your time
Gazzar

 

[John Broomfield]

hello every body
am rewrite a QM for my company for the BSI...i stoped in the process for the Control of Sub Contract labour. to be honest the company was ignoring this process. so if any one can give me ideas about wht should be the rules and regulations for accepting a subcontracts as {water tank builders}..


Thank you for your time
Gazzar

If your company is Controlling Subcontract Labor then it is already doing the process and is not ignoring it .

I suggest you analyze the work of controlling subcontract labor starting with (and returning to) setting (and resetting) the criteria for selecting and reselecting subcontract labor.

You would be wise not to invent a procedure especially for BSi .

Analyze the process and document its procedure instead by taking the following steps as part of developing your management system:

1. Define the objective of the process (eg: watertight tanks built on-time to spec)
2. Identify who is involved in the process (eg: suppliers, supervisors, workers and customers)
3. Specify who sets the labor selection criteria
4. Specify how labor is recruited (is not should be)
5. Specify how labor is trained (again focus on reality)
6. Specify how labor is briefed on the requirements
7. Specify how the work area is made safe before starting site work
8. Specify who monitors and corrects the work
9. Specify the instructions used for welding and testing
10. Specify how the labor is paid (may refer to other forms)
11. Specify who evaluates the adequacy of selection criteria
12. Return to 3. above
13. Specify who evaluates the effectiveness of the procedure

Obtain as-is review comments and correct the procedure. Require non-acceptance of the as-is procedure to result in process changes within two weeks. Update procedure to reflect the new as-is. Have the senior manager responsibile explain and issue the procedure for use and improvement by everyone involved.

Managers and supervisors should be prepared to show your auditors how effective it is and what is being done to improve its effectiveness.

You can do this if you respect reality and avoid the creation of a fictional procedure.

 

[gooofii]

If your company is Controlling Subcontract Labor then it is already doing the process and is not ignoring it .

I suggest you analyze the work of controlling subcontract labor starting with (and returning to) setting (and resetting) the criteria for selecting and reselecting subcontract labor.

You would be wise not to invent a procedure especially for BSi .

Analyze the process and document its procedure instead by taking the following steps as part of developing your management system:

1. Define the objective of the process (eg: watertight tanks built on-time to spec)
2. Identify who is involved in the process (eg: suppliers, supervisors, workers and customers)
3. Specify who sets the labor selection criteria
4. Specify how labor is recruited (is not should be)
5. Specify how labor is trained (again focus on reality)
6. Specify how labor is briefed on the requirements
7. Specify how the work area is made safe before starting site work
8. Specify who monitors and corrects the work
9. Specify the instructions used for welding and testing
10. Specify how the labor is paid (may refer to other forms)
11. Specify who evaluates the adequacy of selection criteria
12. Return to 3. above
13. Specify who evaluates the effectiveness of the procedure

Obtain as-is review comments and correct the procedure. Require non-acceptance of the as-is procedure to result in process changes within two weeks. Update procedure to reflect the new as-is. Have the senior manager responsibile explain and issue the procedure for use and improvement by everyone involved.

Managers and supervisors should be prepared to show your auditors how effective it is and what is being done to improve its effectiveness.

You can do this if you respect reality and avoid the creation of a fictional procedure.

Thank you John, I jus think i didnt make my point clear . I am talking about Sub contract companies , so i think there should be rules from my company for accepting or rejecting a subcontract company (eg: how much there insurence, do they pay tax, whts there CV ,work experience on sites...)
So, I am trying to put like 'standard ' rules in the QM if the Company welling to change or add a new Subcontract company.

Thank you
Gazzar

 

[John Broomfield]

Gazzar,

Using standard criteria for selecting water tank subcontractors makes no sense. Develop and continually improve your own selection to make you more competitive.

John

 

[JaneB]

Thank you John, I jus think i didnt make my point clear . I am talking about Sub contract companies , so i think there should be rules from my company for accepting or rejecting a subcontract company (eg: how much there insurence, do they pay tax, whts there CV ,work experience on sites...)
So, I am trying to put like 'standard ' rules in the QM if the Company welling to change or add a new Subcontract company. Gazzar

I think you're on exactly the right track, Gazzar. (John, I don't understand the issue you apparently see)

I understood from what you write, Gazzar, that you are intending to put a consistent set of criteria (such as insurance, tax, their work experience & also presumably YOUR company's history/experience with them etc) into your Quality Manual. ie, to define some standard criteria to be used for selection &/or monitoring your subcontractors. Naturally the criteria that you select & use will fit your own organisation and its requirements.

 

[gooofii]

I understood from what you write, Gazzar, that you are intending to put a consistent set of criteria (such as insurance, tax, their work experience & also presumably YOUR company's history/experience with them etc) into your Quality Manual. ie, to define some standard criteria to be used for selection &/or monitoring your subcontractors. Naturally the criteria that you select & use will fit your own organisation and its requirements.

Yes Jane, I am trying to do a '' Prequalification Requirements'' for any new Subcontractor company we want to deal with in the future. know about what you said and also about health &safety. what do you think other points could be considered in this issue. Also, why shall i put my company history with them, i mean this should be a standard for any new subcontractors, i might didnt get your point here...

 

[John Broomfield]

Jane,

Sorry for not being clear.

Beyond the boilerplate criteria you and Gazzar mention are the performance criteria.

I agree that the boilerplate criteria could come from a variety of sources such as the law, regulations, trade association's recommendations for sureties, insurances and bonds and financial rules such as the amount of paid up capital being no less that 10% of the total value of the subcontracts in play. Such criteria tend to be set in stone.

I am focused on the performance criteria. 40 to 80% of the company's reputation could depend on the performance of Gazzar's subcontractors (however this fact has yet to be stated) in which case his company will analyze data on subcontractor performance and reset the selection criteria per 8.4d, 8.5.1 and 7.4.1.

It is another of those continual improvement cycles. The quality manual could describe this cycle but it is not a good place to document the ever evolving subcontractor selection criteria.

John

 

[JaneB]

Yes Jane, I am trying to do a '' Prequalification Requirements'' for any new Subcontractor company we want to deal with in the future. know about what you said and also about health &safety. what do you think other points could be considered in this issue. Also, why shall i put my company history with them, i mean this should be a standard for any new subcontractors, i might didnt get your point here...

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were also going to use the criteria to evaluate existing suppliers, hence my suggestion you look at history. If there isn't any, then you can't & don't!

I simply don't know enough about your company and situation to give you any but general advice. The best advice I can give is to go ask people with experience in your company (or even a related field): what, in your opinion or experience, makes for a 'good supplier'? Do you just take 'anyone'? No? Then what makes you choose one over the other? Is there anything you would avoid? What would make you choose someone? And see if you can pick out the criteria from that.

Also, some more general advice:
1. do some searches, because you will almost certainly find the question has been asked and there are probably threads with good advice in them.

2. Also - the question you are asking is now quite a long way from the original topic that was started. The problem with asking a quite different question in a thread is that other people (who may well be able to offer very good advice) may not see your question because few people would expect a question on subcontractors under that heading.

It might be a good idea to ask one of the moderators to break out your question & related posts into a new thread: much more chance of more answers.

 

[JaneB]

I agree that the boilerplate criteria could come from a variety of sources such as the law, regulations, trade association's recommendations for sureties, insurances and bonds and financial rules such as the amount of paid up capital being no less that 10% of the total value of the subcontracts in play. Such criteria tend to be set in stone.

Well, OK, I'll agree of course they will be non-negotiable wherever they are givens (eg, legal, regs, bonds, etc) and the supplier simply must conform.

But there are plenty of other criteria to consider too, from 'how pleasant are they deal with?' through to 'how willing are they to help us meet our goals?' and even 'how good is the paperwork they send us'? One of my clients loathed suppliers who didn't send accurate invoices/bills and the like, as it caused so much extra work and effort for his accounts department.

These are never 'set in stone' where I come from or in my experience. And any good system where suppliers are important would include reviewing the criteria used to select & monitor as a topic for periodic management review to assess effectiveness.

I am focused on the performance criteria.

Yes, I see that, and do agree with you that performance against criteria is important. I imagine we might agree that's one of the reasons why the Standard mandates some criteria to be defined in the first place!

But talking about 'first place', Goofii seems still at a fairly early stage in the process - ie, trying to identify the criteria and then to get them into the system. Emphasising performance criteria so heavily at so early a point seems possibly a little like wanting someone to run before they have yet begun to walk...

 

[gooofii]

2. Also - the question you are asking is now quite a long way from the original topic that was started. The problem with asking a quite different question in a thread is that other people (who may well be able to offer very good advice) may not see your question because few people would expect a question on subcontractors under that heading.

It might be a good idea to ask one of the moderators to break out your question & related posts into a new thread: much more chance of more answers.

actually u are right, however i already have a seperate thread but 'Coury' one of the moderators put me here aswell for more professionel advices. This is the thread i put in my Question if you are intrest in looking at.
Thank you...