ISO 9001:2000 Process Approach - What is it? Is it 'Real'?

[Marc]

Process Approach - What Is It?

We're hearing about a 'process approach' with respect to ISO 9001. While I am interested in coments, I would really appreciate it if you would VOTE in the poll!

I'll post how I understand it and why after we get a few votes in and a few comments.

 

[David Mullins]

a very biased survey!

I can't vote because the reality of ISO 9001:2000, as I see it, is that they took the '94 version, threw in a few extra requirements about customers and stuff and rehashed the document structure to match that of a document that few people use (ISO 14001). This results in the same requirements being repeated several times throughout the standard.

Result:
You are only required to make minimal changes to an existing system;
We can't talk or teach about elements of a system anymore; and
ISO have initiated a change in paradigm to enable integrated systems rather than separate systems - for those that didn't do it already.

The survey is based on there being a fact that ISO 9001:2000 is structured, or should be interpreted, as having a process approach. Well I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Marc]

I'm finishing up my 'Upgrading' document this week and plan to post it this week or over the weekend. It'll be posted in the Premium access directory. Open the ISO9001_Mains directory and look in in the sub-directory ISO9K2K_Upgrading. The file name is ISO9K_Upgrade.ppt. I started it some time ago but ended up not working on it when other things came up. So it was really a 'dumb' file.

In fact, I went ahead and just uploaded the base of the new file for any Premium subscribers who want to check it out. Just remember it's preliminary - it won't be complete before the weekend. However, e-mail me any comments you want - always trying to 'Continuously Improve'.

But - my point of responding is to say I think you'll find that I agree with you (I've made that pretty obvious in a number of my posts as well).

I posted this poll as I came to a point where I was questioning some of what I'm writing and my interpretations - thus the poll. I thought of putting in another option but decided to keep things simple.

 

[Marc]

See How to do with "process approach" at all? for some additional thoughts.

 

[venkat]

The new ISO standard had explicitly mentioned about Human resources, customer satisfaction and product realisation.

In the old standard the customer satisfaction was implicit, resources was mentioned and product realisation is opposite of control of non conforming product.

The main question is how many procedures should we prepare. Can the company decide to have for example only 6 procedures (or) they must write procedures fopr each of the clauses and exclusions ( if any) to be identified and reasons to be cited therein. In other words one would like to know the minimum number of priocedures a company shopuld have in order to comply with ISo 9001:2000

If the number of procedures are less and the company can decide how many to have then this is the hallmark of the new standard
as the procedures depends on the process adopted.

 

[David Mullins]

ISO9001:2000 short cut to registration

Dear "Not Yet",
The standard has 6 items which require documented procedures, but you could have all this included in one procedure. And since the manual now only needs a policy, matrix and references you might as well bung the one procedure in there.

Of course the 6 items just happen to be hard core quality activities that CAN function totally independant of the actual processes of the business.

Process approach?
Nope, nothing's changed. The scope and detail of the "system" is up to the needs of the company and the customer. ISO just made it easy to short circuit the value-adding part.

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VENKAT:
Don't eat the posts, they seem to be repeating on you!

MARC:
Strewth, came back and UNREGISTERED "not yet"s post was gone?? and Venkat's was still there. Both were the same words. Now I'm confused.

 

[gpainter]

Everything thing that has inputs and outputs are a process, wether it is a labor related or internal audits.
according to ISO 9000-2000 3.4.1 it is "a set of interrelated or interacting activities which transform inputs to outputs.

 

[gpainter]

In response to Venkat:
The new standard requires only six documented procedures. You will have to prove via a record that you are doing other things consistently. Most registrars are reccomending that you keep all the current procedures. I think of course you must have the six, as for the others if they add no value for the customer, get rid of them. Most procedures are seldom referenced after training unless it is something technical. As I was trained for internal auditing, one of the main rules were "are we giving the customer the product they want at a value?" to determine QMS effectiviness. I believe Deming said "Quality is not the absence of mistake, but the presence of value." or something of this nature.

 

[Laura M]

I think 2000 helps for companies that looked at the 1994 as 20 separate requirements. Companies that "did it right" defined their process before. This kind of forces the issue. The companies with 20 separate procedures couldn't relate the old standard to their business - just saw a task of procedure writing that needed to get done. Those that fit ISO into their business are probably 90% of the way their to 2000.

I'm working on only one customer for 2000 right now - but they are starting from scratch. Sure seems a heck of alot easier than implementing 1994. Or maybe its just because I'm now familiar enough with 1994 that I can relate. Even so - this client ,who previously considered ISO about 2 years ago, says - 'Wow - I like this much better.'

 

[Marc]

Disappearing Posts

Originally posted by David Mullins

MARC:
Strewth, came back and UNREGISTERED "not yet"s post was gone?? and Venkat's was still there. Both were the same words. Now I'm confused.

Well, I was around and saw the posts and since both were the same words and one was from Venkat and one was from Unregistered, I assumed Venkat logs in and out (I hope everyone knows how to set their user options in the User CP {user control panel} so using cookies you don't have to log in every time you come to the Forums) and that he posted before he realized he hadn't logged in. And then reposted under his own name. Unregistered users can't edit or delete posts, so I deleted the 'Unregistered' copy. Venkat's 'copy' is still there, yes? :thedeal: