ISO 9001:2008 and HSE process

[01mercy]

Hello all,

I want to know how you look at this situation:

At our plant we use the ISO 9001:2008 quality system, for which I'm responsible.
We have for a few months now a HSE officer who is responsible for the HSE process.

1) In my opinion the process HSE falls under clause 6.4 for of the standard and should be covered and controlled as a process under this clause.

The new guy thinks not, he sees his HSE department as totally separate from all else within the company.

2) He has made a policy regarding behavior rules on Health Safety and Environmental within the company. He filed this document but within our coding system of document he related the document to human resources. However we agreed in the document control procedure that deparment managers would file the document for approval of their own department. So in his head there will never be a HSE document in the system because he makes safety, health and environment documents for the different departments. To me this is not, we have the process of heath, safety and environment with it's own set of documents that can be integrated within the different departments.

I don't know how to make him understand that his HSE process falls under the ISO system, and I can't make him understand that the HSE department has it's own documentation that other departments will use.

Please help, do you agree with how I see if yes how can I make this clearer to my colleague? Any background info on this little clause 6.4?
If not please let me know how I can look at it differently.

Thanks!

 

[Reg Morrison]

No, ISO 9001 does not include HSE. Read the clause 0.4 of the standard and the Does ISO 9001 have anything to do with safety at working place? thread

 

[01mercy]

So basically the people who say that HSE is under work environment are incorrect?

Still leaves me with the question if HSE would have their own document or the example I gave would really fall under HR? And if it would be ok to place it under HR if the rules stated relate to HSE?
If this document would fall under HR I would be far more confortable that HR sends out the document for approval instead of the HSE manager.

Thanks

 

[RoxaneB]

If you go by the black and white of the Quality standard, it is focusing on establishing/controlling a work environment that facilitates the ability to make a product which will meet the Customers' requirements. There is no safety aspect...technically.

But let's look at the intent...if people are being hurt on the job, you may run out of qualified people to make the product or the line may need to be stopped, causing a late shipment.

A tad extreme, I'll grant you, but the savvy organization recognizes that it's not about having separate systems set up to meet the requirements for Quality and HSE...but rather creating a Business Management System that integrates and controls the requirements of these systems.

We have discussed integration before here in the Cove : List of Integration threads

 

[01mercy]

Thank you RCBeyette,

I didn't find these threads when I searched before posting. Found them now.
I will look into them.

ISO is a mean to an end and the mean should not be more important than the wanted result.

We have come to the agreement here that we will put HSE under clause 6.4 with a reference to clause 0.4 and explaining that we've made a choice to cover HSE under this clause merely to integrate HSE in the overall document controll structure described by ISO 9001. (it's far more efficient to have HSE under the same document control process). However we will make a statement to ensure that HSE has enough autority and freedom to act as necessary for this department.

Thanks

 

[kgott]

OHSAS 18001 has a document control requirement that mirrors the document control requirements of ISO 9001 so your HSE person is out of order as far as complying with 18001 is concerned.

I do agree that ISO 9001 sites above safety and environment as 9001 is a framework for managing any business, in any industrial sector of any size whereas safety is only concerned with that one subject area.

 

[John Broomfield]

Thank you RCBeyette,

I didn't find these threads when I searched before posting. Found them now.
I will look into them.

ISO is a mean to an end and the mean should not be more important than the wanted result.

We have come to the agreement here that we will put HSE under clause 6.4 with a reference to clause 0.4 and explaining that we've made a choice to cover HSE under this clause merely to integrate HSE in the overall document controll structure described by ISO 9001. (it's far more efficient to have HSE under the same document control process). However we will make a statement to ensure that HSE has enough autority and freedom to act as necessary for this department.

Thanks

Mercy,

Instead of referring to clause 6.4, why not add any missing health and safety controls to your existing processes and any missing health and safety processes to your process-based management system so it conforms to ANSI Z10 and ISO 9001?

Of course, you'll end up sharing several processes such as those for preventive action, corrective action and controlling documented information.

John

 

[01mercy]

Hi John,
Maybe I didn't explain that clear, but i actually meant the same as you write.

Thanks

 

[01mercy]

Exactly, Kgott. I'm not really waiting for two frameworks to cover documentation control

 

[kgott]

Exactly, Kgott. I'm not really waiting for two frameworks to cover documentation control

All you need to do is add words to the effect that the requirements of the document control procedure apply to quality, safety, environment and any other business documents which are subject to revision, as determined by management from time to time.