ISO 9001:2008 Audit Major Finding - Dial Calipers not set to zero

C

cavrdave

#1
ISO Auditor found a set of dial calipers with the dial not set to zero and considered this a major finding. He feels Calibration is only permitted to adjust the dial(loosen the set screw and move). He felt that product could be out of spec but not get caught. The operator was not using the calipers. He had gotten them but didn't get to using them yet so he hadn't looked at them yet. Does anyone have a similar experience?
 
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#2
On what does the auditor base his "feeling" that only Calibration should be permitted to adjust the dial? What does your written procedures have to say about it?

Speaking about calibration: As the calipers in question had not been in use, they could hardly have caused any faulty products to slip through the inspection, could they? How great is the risk that they do get used, ending up with faulty products slipping through? Again, what does your written procedures say about inspection, which equipment to use, and its calibration status?

To consider this a major finding sounds a bit stiff in my opinion... :notme: ...but I suppose that depends on what a faulty reading could result in.
 
#3
ISO Auditor found a set of dial calipers with the dial not set to zero and considered this a major finding. He feels Calibration is only permitted to adjust the dial(loosen the set screw and move). He felt that product could be out of spec but not get caught. The operator was not using the calipers. He had gotten them but didn't get to using them yet so he hadn't looked at them yet. Does anyone have a similar experience?
Not as bizarre as this! Are you talking about a CB auditor? "ISO auditor" is a term people use for both internal and external auditors. If it's a CB auditor, can you give us the exact wording of the "major"?

In practice, this is a totally bizarre finding and you MUST take it up with the CB (if that's who this is) and tell them that your auditor is incompetent and you won't pay for an audit done by an incompetent auditor! If the auditor took just this one instance and didn't subsequently check what was going on, then they are not doing their job effectively.
 
Q

qualitypirate

#4
It sounds like your auditor has no idea how calipers actually work. Putting an offset on them can sometimes be key to checking a part. If the guys in my shop had to come to me to return their calipers to zero I would have to put one of those take a number things out in front of QA.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#5
ISO Auditor found a set of dial calipers with the dial not set to zero and considered this a major finding. ...snip
I'm in agreement with the above...the operator setting the dial to zero before use (or possibly another number) is part of the normal operation of using calipers.

All the same, findings are when actions do not match requirements.
What is the requirement cited in the finding?

Is there a procedural requirement in your system that states that calipers will be set to zero when not in use? If so, the described situation would be a non-conformance.

Finding that NC, I would suggest an OFI to remove such a silly requirement from the procedure.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#6
It would be the same as pressing the zero button on a digital caliper.

While I do agree that clarifying whether zeroing a piece of equipment is considered appropriate by a user, I certainly don't think it merits a finding; especially one with no backing.

If the users zero the device before use and remove the error, why would an auditor be worried about that? I would be more concerned with someone picking up an instrument with error present and not doing anything about it.

The practice of zeroing the calipers do need to be proceduralized and be consistent. But on the surface, I don't see anything that would merit a major finding. If that's the worst thing they find in your process, you should receive a medal; not a finding. :)
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
It's a Horse$hit finding :horse:. File an appeal to the CB and if they balk appeal to the AB probably ANAB

It doesn't matter a **** how the auditor feels...Oh yeah, I know how calipers work and the caliper probably doesn't measure small enough to gage the auditors intellect on this one.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Sometimes there is a "rest of the story" that could change one's views. For example, if the auditor saw the offset from 0 and then asked the calipers user how he/she uses them to measure and he/she just grabs them and measures something without checking zero, thereby giving a wrong answer, I can see it as a finding.

If the user(s) of the calipers know to check zero and what to do if it is not zeroed, I'd say it is a BS finding and should be protested.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Had a similar experience about a decade ago. What we did was to place a 'calibrated' 1" block on every workstation, mainly to show the auditors that there was a procedure to go through before using the calipers.
Of course zeroing was the first, (but there was no physical evidence of this), so we added the 1" block and had the operator take the reading before any measurements (this was written on top of the SPC sheet we were using). This provided the evidence that the procedure was being followed and as an added benefit, was a check on whether the dial was zeroed or not.
This was a workaround , to be sure, but it was the simplest solution for us at the time.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#10
It's a Horse$hit finding :horse:. File an appeal to the CB and if they balk appeal to the AB probably ANAB

It doesn't matter a **** how the auditor feels...Oh yeah, I know how calipers work and the caliper probably doesn't measure small enough to gage the auditors intellect on this one.
Go ahead Randy, tell us how you REALLY feel :lol:

Sounds like you have been through an audit 'finding' similar to this in the past.
 
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