ISO 9001:2008 Clause 8.2.4 - Monitoring and Measurement of Product

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espascua_23

#1
Hi there! I've been an avid viewer of many threads in this site, mostly on how to properly implement the ISO 9001:2008 standard and to be honest, I find it very useful. However, I've tried searching for threads similar to my concern but couldn't find one.

I'm a QA Officer in a trading company which deals with the supply of various machineries and equipments. During my recent internal audit with our Logistics/Stores department, I have recommended that they do inspections/minor functional testing of new machines/equipments before delivering the same to our clients and maintain records of such inspections/testings. My objective is to lessen the number of items being returned to us (under warranty) due to non/mal-functionality, and I have used the subject clause to justify my recommendation.

My question is, was my recommendation necessary and/or did I apply the correct clause? Hope you can also give some insights on how we should (practically) go about this... thanks in advance!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hello, espascua_23, and welcome among the posters :bigwave:
My question is, was my recommendation necessary and/or did I apply the correct clause? Hope you can also give some insights on how we should (practically) go about this... thanks in advance!
Your objective to lessen the number of customer complaints is a worthy one, which clearly warrants your recommendation. As for clause 8.2.4, I see no problem with it, but I would probably have used 7.4.3 - verification of purchased product, myself (Assuming that you are buying the products externally, of course).

/Claes
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Hi there! I've been an avid viewer of many threads in this site, mostly on how to properly implement the ISO 9001:2008 standard and to be honest, I find it very useful. However, I've tried searching for threads similar to my concern but couldn't find one.

I'm a QA Officer in a trading company which deals with the supply of various machineries and equipments. During my recent internal audit with our Logistics/Stores department, I have recommended that they do inspections/minor functional testing of new machines/equipments before delivering the same to our clients and maintain records of such inspections/testings. My objective is to lessen the number of items being returned to us (under warranty) due to non/mal-functionality, and I have used the subject clause to justify my recommendation.

My question is, was my recommendation necessary and/or did I apply the correct clause? Hope you can also give some insights on how we should (practically) go about this... thanks in advance!
My question to you is: did you find any non conformity ? What were the audit criteria? From what you wrote in the post I did not understand whether it is a non conformity or an opportunity for improvement/observation.
Do you have evidence for this or it is only a desiderata?
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Good intentions, wrong timing ~~~ :rolleyes:
Did you wait till the internal audit to recommend an objective concerning warranty ?
If yes then certainly do not stop from making good and timely recommendations when you see an opportunity to monitor and improve
When you want to do good for the company, do not think of what clause of ISO9001 you have to wrap it into.
Just go the way of Plan >> Do > Check >> Act.

... AND A WARM WELCOME TO THE COVE espascua_23 ~~~
 
Last edited:

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
I could go with either 7.4.3 as Claes suggested - ensuring that what you bought is OK - or with your original suggestion of 8.2.4 - in particular the paragraph which states 'product release and service delivery shall not proceed until the planned arrangements have been satisfactorily completed ...'

You might also want to consider 8.4 Analysis of Data - 'provide information relating to b) conformity to product requirements'

In other words, 'how big is the problem?' if you are getting too many of these situations you are not satisfying customers. Good work on your part though, you are trying to be pro-active. :agree1:
 
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espascua_23

#6
Thank you guys for all the insights! And to answer most of your questions, the scope of the audit is to assess the implementation of the delivery process and to verify subsequent results where customer feedbacks is one among the criteria. I'm new in the organization and that was the first time that I have audited the department and its activities. As much as I want to call for a nonconformity, nothing is stated in the process that requires the section to inspect and/or test the machines prior to delivery, which lowers my finding to a recommendation or "system for improvement" only.

Based on our customer feedback procedure, once a complaint is found valid, a CAR shall be issued, and based on the records (i.e., the feedbacks) that I've checked, around 5 were considered valid which led my audit trail to the CARs and corrective actions made but nothing relates to the need for inspections.

As for the suggestion to have the machines tested upon receipt from our suppliers, nobody from the section is competent to perform such activities (and yes, we're getting the items from the manufacturers). What they are required of in relation to a different process is to physically check the condition of all items received in terms of quality and packaging only. However though, what we have is a Service Dept. where in addition to my initial recommendation, I have suggested that the latter section do the inspections since their technicians are skilled enough to do the job. This would definitely be an add-on to their current duties, but this is something that I'm also working on.

Hope I have explained the situation more clearly...and again, many thanks!
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
You are new to the organization and this cleares quite some air.
Thanks for your clarification.
You can think of a PDI (Pre delivery inspection) process and for this you can demand the machine manufacturers to send their field sales / service engineers at times of need. Certain PDI needs a set up and you must have such an infrastructure to conduct a PDI for customer witness before delivery. Depends upon the size and complexity of the machines you deal. The competency can subsequently be built in your engineers. This can be initiated with such manufacturers whose machines show early failure based on data that you have from customer calls.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#8
..................I have recommended that they do inspections/minor functional testing of new machines/equipments before delivering the same to our clients and maintain records of such inspections/testings. ..............................
Welcome to the Cove.

Good intentions aside, please check your business agreement with the manufacturer for a clear understanding of your scope and responsibilities. Many would not want you to poke your nose into their product irrespective of number of customer complaints, etc.

..................... nobody from the section is competent to perform such activities (and yes, we're getting the items from the manufacturers). .........................
This tells me that testing or whatever is outside your scope because if it is part of your responsibility then relevant training would had been provided to the people involved.

Your job is to collect/collate all customer complains and feed back to the manufacturer - much like the way automotive sales outlet work with the manufacturers.
 
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espascua_23

#9
Thanks Somashekar! Actually, your suggestion of a PDI process is to where I'm planning to lead our organization. It may take us some time to incorporate it in our current set-up but I'm confident we'll get there.

As for the manufacturers, all of them are from other countries. What we do is notify them of such situations, with the hope that they'll look for possible causes and do something to improve the quality of their products.
 

drgnrider

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
As for the manufacturers, all of them are from other countries. What we do is notify them of such situations, with the hope that they'll look for possible causes and do something to improve the quality of their products.
Are they ISO-9001 certified? If so, there might be a mutual means to partner together that help both of you. :2cents:
 
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