ISO 9001:2008 Contract Review for a business that doesn't have formal contract review

C

corwall

#1
Scenario- A landscaping company who do not actually produce, rather they provide a service. Ex 'one man band' which has evolved into a business employing 25 people.They had no formal QMS or defined systems and I have spent 6 months of writing basic procedures and method statements. However, I am stumped with Contract review and Sales Order procedure - the driving force is to get business by any means possible and until a quotation is accepted, there is no formal review of how the contract will be fulfilled. There are 3 persons who create quotations - the MD, the Exterior Projects Manager and the Interior Sales Designer. When writing quotations (for which they all have a different numbering system!) there are 3 basic considerations -whether or not a sale will give a realistic return on costs, and whether or not they can get the plants and if it is in a location that they can get to. When an order has been accepted they then juggle the rota of 6 teams of technicians and order the plants to actually to meet the promised installation or maintenance contract. Skips, van hire and machinery is also considered at this point. Surprisingly, this works in 99.9% of cases but I just dont know how to show it does. The MD does not like flow charts. All procedures must be written documents. I would appreciate any comments, ideas or even examples of couments from anyone else who has been in this situation. Resistance to change is huge as well...which does not help. Thanks.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

All procedures must be written documents.
Why? ISO 9001 doesn't require them all to be documented...
ISO 9000 said:
NOTE 1 Procedures can be documented or not.
I would appreciate any comments, ideas or even examples of couments from anyone else who has been in this situation.
I often see a form used to collect needed information (per 7.2.1). The form could include the "basic considerations" that they need to do the review. The completed form itself can become the record of the review activity required in 7.2.2.
 
#3
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business that doesnt have formal contract revi

A "formal review" isn't required. It sounds like they are performing a review. All that is really needed is to make sure that their review considers the requirements of 7.2.1 and 7.2.2 in their practice. A bit of education as to what the requirements are may be all that is needed to bring their practice into conformation (and it sounds like they are close).

If you want to formalize it, develop a review checklist based on the requirements and on the nature of the business.

"Have I gathered all the customer requirements? What requirements am I adding based on my knowledge of the industry? Are there any legal requirements to pay attention to (building codes or the like)? Are there any other requirements?"

"Have I determined all the requirements? Have the customer and I had a 'meeting of the minds' as to the requirements? Can we do it?"
 
C

corwall

#4
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business that doesnt have formal contract revi

I really appreciate your input put my main concern is that I think that review is carried out AFTER the contract stage rather than prior to it. The form is a great idea but so much of the sales process is done 'on the fly' I am concerned that it could turn out to be a record of things that have NOT done rather than of those that are. This company has grown organically and everyone does their own thing. The Sales person will do anything to get a sale and is not interested in form filling. She works off site and doesnt always have internet access so wont fill in the quotation numbering spreadsheet. Refuses to come to Management Review Meetings. It is a bit of an uphill struggle.
 
C

corwall

#5
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

Sorry - didnt make myself clear. I know that all procedures do not have to be documented for the purposes of ISO. The MD doesnt like flowcharts as he doesnt think his employees will understand them. I have to write procedures and method statements (WIs) very simply and clearly. Quite a few of the people who work for us are pretty well illiterate - but they do understand gardening and plants. Simply getting them to fill in work sheets (our main record of work done and customer feedback) has taken me 4 months of training.
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#6
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

Sorry - didnt make myself clear. I know that all procedures do not have to be documented for the purposes of ISO. The MD doesnt like flowcharts as he doesnt think his employees will understand them. I have to write procedures and method statements (WIs) very simply and clearly. Quite a few of the people who work for us are pretty well illiterate - but they do understand gardening and plants. Simply getting them to fill in work sheets (our main record of work done and customer feedback) has taken me 4 months of training.

Have you considered using video clips? Visuals work very well for folks who have limited language and reading skills.

Stijloor.
 
C

Cornwap

#7
Re: ISO 9001:2008 Contract Review for a business that doesn't have formal contract re

Hi Corwall,

I tend to avoid seperate procedures as they never get read. As Howste suggests a form is much easier, particularly if any instructions or examples are embedded into it.

I have attached a Scheme Inception Meeting and Site Visit Template for small civil engineering projects. This is probably more complex than you need but the layout may be of use. Incidentally there was no procedure or flowchart behind this.

It was designed for a designer, supervisor, quantity surveyor, client and subcontractor to review a job on site and confirm the requirements, constraints and risks. I developed it in conjunction with these people based on their experiences of things gone right / wrong on scheme delivery. It could easily be expanded to be used for quotation build up. It could also include a space for a sketch with some instructions.

The important thing for me is to build it up with the users, particularly their experiences where predicted profits weren't achieved because things were missed at quotation. This includes the explanations and examples.

Hope it's of some use, let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards
Phil
 

Attachments

C

corwall

#8
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

Thanks Stijloor. I agree but this throws up a very interesting point with regards to ISO9001 that you need everyone on board to make it work or at least the majority of employees. In other companies where I have worked, the ISO ethos extends from shop floor to MD. In this company, there is one admin person who works from 9 - 2 every day. She is expected to do all the admin for the company as well as going to be ISO Administrator. Therefore we rely heavily on the male groundworkers (1 female out of 20) to do their own work records and get quotations for purchase orders and get them authorised correctly. Before the ISO introduction started, the admin person had done this for them and it is considered to be 'women's work'.There was a lot of grumbling when I asked that the workforce should take their share on. They call me "the teacher" and not in a pleasant way.Any NCRs I issue are counted and can be used as a disciplinary tool.The guys work 6.30 am to 3.30pm and when they come in from work, they have to clean their vehicles on their own time. OK some of them are less literate than others but as a body, they are not interested in ISO. All they want to do is get to work, earn money and get home. It is a whole different world from videos, PowerPoint presentations etc. There isnt the funding for and there isnt the culture/interest in place. The business is trying to survive.I'm temping at this company and am only tasked with getting them through ISO. The MD wants it to get on approved supplier's lists, which you need in the UK to have access to most government and local authorities. After it has been achieved I will be gone and I am not sure what will happen to their commitment to the Standard.
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#9
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

Thanks Stijloor. I agree but this throws up a very interesting point with regards to ISO9001 that you need everyone on board to make it work or at least the majority of employees. In other companies where I have worked, the ISO ethos extends from shop floor to MD. In this company, there is one admin person who works from 9 - 2 every day. She is expected to do all the admin for the company as well as going to be ISO Administrator. Therefore we rely heavily on the male groundworkers (1 female out of 20) to do their own work records and get quotations for purchase orders and get them authorised correctly. Before the ISO introduction started, the admin person had done this for them and it is considered to be 'women's work'.There was a lot of grumbling when I asked that the workforce should take their share on. They call me "the teacher" and not in a pleasant way.Any NCRs I issue are counted and can be used as a disciplinary tool.The guys work 6.30 am to 3.30pm and when they come in from work, they have to clean their vehicles on their own time. OK some of them are less literate than others but as a body, they are not interested in ISO. All they want to do is get to work, earn money and get home. It is a whole different world from videos, PowerPoint presentations etc. There isnt the funding for and there isnt the culture/interest in place. The business is trying to survive.I'm temping at this company and am only tasked with getting them through ISO. The MD wants it to get on approved supplier's lists, which you need in the UK to have access to most government and local authorities. After it has been achieved I will be gone and I am not sure what will happen to their commitment to the Standard.
Would job security make sense to these folks?

Stijloor.
 
J

JaneB

#10
Re: ISO9001:2008 Contract Review for a business without formal contract review

The most important personwho needs to be on board is the MD in this case - it's nice if the other employees are 'on board', but as you say, they want to work, earn money and get home. So the system needs to be one they can understand and work with. And 'you no do X like so = you no get $' can work!

I'd spend a bit of time educating the MD - because if he don't get what HIS part is in it, he's gonna spend $$ on 'passing the exam' and then fall on his whatever at his next audit. It isn't just a 'get your licence, and that's it for ever - you never have to bother again'. If he doesn't get this, he needs to.

As for 'contract review' (must we still use that dreadful term? - it hasn't actually appeared in the Standard itself since the year 2000, but seems to have a weird life of its own)... again, translate it into terms that make sense!

What 7.2.2. says (translated) is:
a) do you know what the requirements for this job/product/service are?
b)if there were any changes, have they now been ironed out?
c) (seriously important!!) CAN YOU DO IT??

So if, for example, you put it in terms like: "IF you take on a job you CANNOT do... you will lose money, your reputation, etc, etc." As Jim said, sounds like they're doing it, perhaps not formally. Does not have to be formal! The process of writing up the order/quote can be the outcome of the review.

Sure they want to get business - everyone does! But therfe's a difference between 1. 'will we be able to do this job if we get it? (yes, we might need to hire 16 new people and subcontract in a Bobcat and an earthmover and whatever else) and 2. 'we couldn't do THIS job unless we seriously had a magic wand, and even then we wouldn't know where to start!). So IF he has people out there selling type 2 jobs (you can't do 'em) that's business suicide. Are you really saying that's happening?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Transition training for Internal Auditor from ISO 9001: 2008 to the ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Q What is the ISO 9001:2008 certificate status after 15 Sep 2018? Registrars and Notified Bodies 7
Q Surveillance Audit of 2008 before Transition Audit to ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 20
T ISO 9001:2008 to 2015 transition - How much work to change? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
G Upkeep of ISO 9001:2008 during Transition TO ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Sidney Vianna IAF Ruling - No more ISO 9001:2008 nor ISO 14001:2004 audits after 2018-03-15 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
W Internal Approval of Deviations - ISO 9001:2008 & ISO 13485:2003 Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 12
D Customer Audit - Root Cause Help - ISO 9001:2008 Cl. 7.5.3 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Q Incorrectly Performed ISO 9001:2008 Internal Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M Total number of Requirements for ISO 9001:2008 vs. ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
P ISO 9001:2008 Design and Development Process & Forms examples wanted Design and Development of Products and Processes 3
P Need a new video for employee training ISO 9001:2008 Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 6
J ISO 9001:2008 - Can I still conduct Internal Audits in my company? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
Q Objective and Goals - ISO 9001:2008 Frequency Revision Requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
C Internal Auditing Requirements (ISO 9001:2008) Internal Auditing 3
Q Drawings from Client - ISO 9001:2008 Clause 4.2.3 or 7.5.4? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
C ISO 9001:2008 Surveillance Audit - No Internal Audits Internal Auditing 9
P Small company of approx 28 Employees - ISO-9001:2008 Guidelines ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
T TS16949 - What extras over the ISO 9001:2008? Gap Analysis IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
P Tasked to change ISO 9001:2008 to ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
K Verification instead of calibration?(ISO 9001:2008) Calibration Frequency (Interval) 10
D Comparison of ISO 9001:2008 and CAN3-Z299.3 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
K Must I update the Quality Policy? (ISO 9001:2008) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
C ISO 9001:2008 to 2015 Transition Training ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
A Tailored ISO 9001:2008 for DLA (AS9100) (AS9003) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
Marc ISO 9001:2015 vs. 2008 - Internal Audits - What changes are you making? Internal Auditing 44
B Global / Local Management Review - ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Q Steps from ISO 9001 2008 to 2015? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
O Should ISO 9001:2008 be treated as a standalone quality standard alongside AS9120A? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
M How important is a Quality Manual - ISO 9001:2008 to 9001:2015 Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 95
Q Criteria for not rising NCR's in 8.3 of ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
J Large vs. Small Quality Manual - ISO 9001:2008 Clause 4.2.2 Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 19
Q Correlation Matrix of ISO 9001:2008 and ISO 9001: Wanted ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
T 8.3 ISO 9001:2008 Nonconforming product ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
Q What to consider in 6.4 work environment? ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
S ISO 9001:2008 Certification Scope does not mention "manufacturing" ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
P Records Retention and Disposition - ISO 9001:2008 Requirements Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 5
S ISO 9001:2008 Lead Auditor Exam Fail - How to follow up? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
C Should we register to ISO 9001:2008 or ISO 9001:2015? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
T Audit Nonconformance - ISO 9001:2008 Clause 6.2.2 - Competencies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 20
A How best to start revising an existing ISO 9001:2008 system in a company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Q ISO 9001:2008 requirement for Design Organization Approval prior to "Repair" ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
J In the ISO 9001:2008 company, can give reference to sister company also. ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
H ISO 9001-2008 Violation Tickets Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 12
D How to approach Paper and Electronic Record Control for ISO 9001:2008 Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 7
D Hard cut off date for certificates to be issued against ISO 9001:2008? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
E ISO 9001-2008 Purchasing controls ? Issuing POs Without Specific Approvals Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 8
N Passed ISO 9001:2008 Certification Audit Covegratulations 9
H ISO 9001-2008 Management Review Management Review Meetings and related Processes 3
R Clause in ISO 9001:2008 for Requesting Material from Customer Service Industry Specific Topics 9

Similar threads

Top Bottom