ISO 9001:2008 Management Representative and other Management Staff

[Quality Bryan]

Re: ISO 9001:2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

It does not state this person must be titled the "Quality Manager". Many times this person does have this title but for smaller companies it could easily be the Business Manager or the person with the most quality experience.

I agree with you, I'm just stating that the Standard is written to offer options.

 

[Quality Bryan]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

Question about attaining a new Registrar (Potenitally answered by the moderator):

Is it common for those bidding on a contract award to ask to see a copy of your current ISO certification? I assume they would want to know with whom you are currently registrered with thus potentially using that information in the bidding proces.

I don't think our company should have to provide our registration for those bidding.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Mazoku]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

It's not really about any of the things you point out. It's all about whether this person can demonstrate competency in the role, and can represent the QMS for management etc. It's NOT a nonconformity, however and having a "manager" title, doesn't really make much difference.

I want to believe this, but the standard clearly states the Management Rep must be a member of management, it's not worded in a way that can be taken otherwise. I'm not saying he needs to be called Quality Manager, and I'm not saying he needs to have "Manager" in his title at all. But he does need to be a member of management, and he clearly is not. Unless I am completely off course here. Which is not out of the realm of possibility. I am new to ISO and auditing so maybe I'm taking things too literally?

 

[Quality Bryan]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

I apologize if I misunderstood your question. The Quality Rep should be in management. I was stating that that Manager does not have to be in the QA department.

 

[Mazoku]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

I apologize if I misunderstood your question. The Quality Rep should be in management. I was stating that that Manager does not have to be in the QA department.

It's OK, perhaps I miss-worded myself. I have a tendency to do this

 

[Wilderness Woody]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

I want to believe this, but the standard clearly states the Management Rep must be a member of management, it's not worded in a way that can be taken otherwise. I'm not saying he needs to be called Quality Manager, and I'm not saying he needs to have "Manager" in his title at all. But he does need to be a member of management, and he clearly is not. Unless I am completely off course here. Which is not out of the realm of possibility. I am new to ISO and auditing so maybe I'm taking things too literally?

The statement and intent of clause 5.5.2 does indeed mean "management"... the reasoning is that the authority needs to be explicit in order to achieve the required results. Now, this management role may be granted to an employee that does no direct supervision of staffing, but rather has oversight of the QMS company wide.

Depending upon the size and type of organization, this representative may report to upper management and liaison with Top Management or report only to the Top Management. Quite often it is assumed that for a small organization that the QMS is directed and run from a TOP position. However, there will be companies where the Owner/President/CEO is not knowledgeable, experienced or capable of the QM role. Through a new hire or training of internal staff, some other person takes on that role... they need to be given the authority commensurate with the responsibility in order to succeed.

 

[AndyN]

Re: ISO 9001:2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

So, the key question is "member of management" - what is this?

In his role as management rep they may function as a member of management, can't they? Regardless of their "regular" work...

 

[toto2010]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your advice. I did read through 5.6 management review but I didn't know I can put the change in it. Really thank you very much.
Also 5.5.1 states that authority shall be defined but it does not say documented....

Once again thank you and have a nice day.

Regards,
Toto2010

 

[AndyN]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

Question about attaining a new Registrar (Potenitally answered by the moderator):

Is it common for those bidding on a contract award to ask to see a copy of your current ISO certification? I assume they would want to know with whom you are currently registrered with thus potentially using that information in the bidding proces.

I don't think our company should have to provide our registration for those bidding.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!

Are you asking about changing registrars? If so, then yes, they will need to see your current certificate. They will need to see if it is accredited (ANAB, UKAS etc) and they will (ultimately) need to see your past audit reports etc. to ensure they know what they are walking into. You will need to provide a reason for changing registrars, too.

 

[Big Jim]

Re: ISO 9001: 2008 Management Representative and other Managment Staff

I believe the standard doesn not specify that the Rep is a QA Manager per say but rather has the authority and direct access to Top Management to resolve all QMS related issues.

For what it is worth, Quality gets pushed in the corner at many large companies. I would run this up your chain for support.

Actually you are mixing in a requirement from AS9100.

5.5.2d
"Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority that includes . . . d) the organizational freedom and unrestricted access to top management to resolve quality management issues.

This would certainly be a good practice for an ISO 9001 company, but it is beyond requirements.