ISO 9001:2008 Mandatory Procedures in Quality Manual

[JaneB]

hi Jane,
thinking that Training is a mandatory procedure must be from the fact that my company does TS16949. I clearly remember our Auditor listing Training as one of the mandatory ones to cover.
Doesn't hurt having one anyway.

It's important to be accurate, particularly in a forum for ISO 9001. There is no mandatory requirement to have one for ISO 9001 - whether an individual company decides it wants one is entirely up to them. Sorry if that sounds nitpicky, not meant to be.
To my way of thinking, having any written document, whether a procedure or policy or whathave you that you don't need and don't see the point of (including because someone has told you that you 'must' or you believe it, even when it isn't true) is what hurts.
I share Jim's reservations about anyone (auditor, consultant, whoever!) who continues to push the same line even when an error is brought to their attention. Inexcusable, and a Big Fat Red Warning flag.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Since this thread is turning in that direction, I might just as well add that I have had my fair share, and then some, of external auditors (always from customers, never from registrars... ...fortunately ) telling me in no uncertain terms that "this is an ISO requirement!", when it in fact was nothing of the sort. Some of them are so set in their ways that they proceed to griping about the fact that our registrar "really should not have approved you for registration"... when they are in fact dead WRONG.

That is the kind of auditor known as Auditosaurus Rex, and be warned: They still roam the Earth!

 

[Colin]

Claes, you are spot on and it is likely to get worse when the new standard hits the streets.

The CB I worked for in the year 2000 typically lost 1 auditor/year through retirement, moving on to a better offer, etc. In the year 2000 we lost 5 auditors - they just couldn't make the leap to audit in a different way. Lets see what happens this time.

 

[lk2012]

There's an easy way to spot the mandatory ones:
it's where the standard states: ... organisation shall establish / maintain documented procedures for...

JaneB, the Training one is stated like this in TS16949. Our consultant was right this time.

You've got to give the Auditors / consultants the occassional credit for being right.

 

[BubbaDog56]

I took the minimalistic approach when rewriting our quality manual, three pages including the cover page. The second page contains the scope and a table where the six core procedures are referenced. For ease of access, they are tied to the manual via a structured BOM in our ERP system. The third page is a high level process map showing interactions and flow, with links to any associated procedures. I have no urge to regurgitate the standard with our company name inserted and procedures embedded.

 

[JaneB]

JaneB, the Training one is stated like this in TS16949. Our consultant was right this time.

You've got to give the Auditors / consultants the occassional credit for being right.

I get that. But the question was asked in the ISO 9001 forum, and not a TS16949 forum. It is never a good idea to mix up different standards and their differing requirements - it gives forum users incorrect information and guidance. We need to be very clear about what information is correct. Your listing of a training procedure as mandatory, in this case, was not.

 

[Mallya]

Your consultant is wrong, and I think the problem is how he was brought up in quality. Mandatory SOPs can be in or out the quality manual. Don't swallow everything from your consultant Sometimes try to check/search this forum for advice.

Rgs

Benny