ISO 9001:2008 Surveillance Audit Frequency Requirements

[Randy]

ISO 17021 that Sindey mentioned is very specific and clear as to what the relationship between the registrar/CB is supposed to be; how appeals are to be handled, documented and process communicated; how audits themselves are to be scheduled, planned, performed and recorded (by using reference to IAF documents like MD5) and other cool stuff. If your CB is accredited, lets say by ANAB, UKAS or similar bodies then 17021 is an absolute they have to follow as is IAF MD5, so the information you are seeking should have already been communicated to you and definitely questions must be answered.

If you are dissatisified you have the right to file a written complaint with your CB's accreditation body (oh yeah they have to give you the contact information), and guess what...Your CB can get a big fat NC themselves and YES, as has happened to others paraphrasing the language of your auditor..."Get their certificate pulled" if they don't want to play right

 

[JaneB]

I'll just add that it may be that you need to go up the line a bit in the first instance - perhaps you're only dealing with the scheduling person who's either misinformed and/or perhaps hasn't taken their be nice to the client pills recently and needs recalibrating. Scheduling people (administration function) can get very focussed - indeed, over focussed - on their job of scheduling, and forget about other things at times.

 

[Big Jim]

There seems to be much less flexibility under 17021 compared to the old Guide 62. It is worth pursuing, but your CB can have a nonconformance written against them by the AB (accreditation body) above them if they don't comply to 17021.

17021 was published in 2006, mostly not implemented until the last minute, at least in the United States, so not widely applied until September 2008. 17021 was revised in late 2011.

I don't know just how much discretion they have about going past a year, but from what I understand, not much.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Some good replies here. I'd echo what JaneB says, though and take it up the line the rules in 17021 can be bent but not broken for genuine cases. Most CBs will be flexible so long as they feel they can justify their actions in front of their AB.

 

[Jaxter]

Thanks to all for the great info! I did a little research and did find out that before 17021 there was a + or - 2 month grace period for scheduling audits. Seems that was eliminated by 17021 2006. I just find it hard to believe that they would go from that to nothing.

Again, this is 1st audit AFTER our recertification that took place in 2011. The standard 9.3.2.2 references the audits before recertification, but says nothing about " after being recertified..." or anything to that effect that I could find. All we are asking for is a 2 week extension from the date of the last audit. There must be some sort of written request process that companies can follow that may not need a 2 month window, but at least 0 -30 days.

I'm seriously thinking about contacting the ANAB or ISO for some clarification or formal request process. This has been a great learning experience about ISO and CB's. When I 1st started, our CB was all mysterious like the great "Wizard of Oz". Extremely intimidating, never showing you their "secrets". Thanks to the Cove, all the info and great responses has truely "pulled back the curtain" and given me the confindance to question and confront.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

All we are asking for is a 2 week extension from the date of the last audit. There must be some sort of written request process that companies can follow that may not need a 2 month window, but at least 0 -30 days.

Most CB's I know will grant you a 30 day extension without much thought. In a previous post, you mentioned that the auditor would not budge. Are you talking directly to your auditor or are you talking to someone at the CB? Sometimes the auditor might not want to have his/her schedule changed because it creates inconvenience to them. Make sure your CB is aware of your request. In order words, bypass your auditor. It might be a case where your CB is unaware of your request.

 

[Jaxter]

Thanks Sidney! We requested this to our auditor directly. We have only dealt with the auditor directly on all the issues and processes for ISO. The only reason we need this extension is because we are doing the closeout of our fiscal year in March. That has to be completed by 3/31. From previous post (search under Jaxter) you can see we've had a rough year. It was a verbal request, but I'm thinking of making a formal written request CC'ing other CB parties that may open the door for us. I want this to be a win/win for everyone. We had our recert auditscheduled for the beginning of March last year, kowing our cert would expire April 14. After scheuling was confirmed, he rescheduled, not us, which put our recert audit 2 weeks before expiration. Now does this request seem without merit? I think not. We have been seriously considering changing CB's, but we don't want to jump from frying pan to fire...Thanks!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Thanks Sidney! We requested this to our auditor directly. We have only dealt with the auditor directly on all the issues and processes for ISO.

In this case, I can almost guarantee to you that the reason for your auditor to deny your request is because s/he does not want to change his/her schedule. S/he is throwing 17021 as a smoke screen, hoping that you buy into it. Having a single point of contact can work against you when the individual becomes a bottleneck.

Now, it is possible that the CB would agree with a change of dates, but have to assign a different auditor. That can also bring risks and potential additional charges.

Your request is totally common and, as I said, most CB's would grant you the extension without undue delay.

 

[Sharon_Noble]

I have a question similar to this but with a twist. We completed our ISO 9001 re-registration audit last year and have our new cert which expires Dec 16 2015.
Last month we all received notice of termination and were told the facility was shutting down and production would stop July of 2013. Our surveillance audit was scheduled for the end of September, however I notified our CB Auditor that we would end production as of July. Now we are being told our facility shut down is pushed to Oct 1, and all employees have been "rehired" under a fixed term contract. So 2 questions come up...:
1) Do we need to conduct the surveillance audit in Sept if we are shutting down in Oct?
2) What happens in October if the company now says we want to push the shut down to July 2014?
3) Are we still technically registered to ISO 9001 until Dec 2015?

 

[Randy]

I have a question similar to this but with a twist. We completed our ISO 9001 re-registration audit last year and have our new cert which expires Dec 16 2015.
Last month we all received notice of termination and were told the facility was shutting down and production would stop July of 2013. Our surveillance audit was scheduled for the end of September, however I notified our CB Auditor that we would end production as of July. Now we are being told our facility shut down is pushed to Oct 1, and all employees have been "rehired" under a fixed term contract. So 2 questions come up...:
1) Do we need to conduct the surveillance audit in Sept if we are shutting down in Oct?
2) What happens in October if the company now says we want to push the shut down to July 2014?
3) Are we still technically registered to ISO 9001 until Dec 2015?

Here's a good solid answer in the form of a question: Have you taken te time to ask your CB instead of others that may not know what their exact requirements are?

You will only get the best and most accurate answer from Your CB.