ISO 9001 2015 - 7.2 Competency

jga444

Starting to get Involved
#1
What may be required to document competency if based on previous work history.

For example, a position has a job description defining the key responsibilities and core competencies. An employee has performed this job for several years and his/her manager is intimately familiar with their quality and work history. Can the manager sign-off a simple declaration statement, as apposed to say completing a detailed evaluation checklist based on work samples/observations/etc.
 

John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#2
What may be required to document competency if based on previous work history.

For example, a position has a job description defining the key responsibilities and core competencies. An employee has performed this job for several years and his/her manager is intimately familiar with their quality and work history. Can the manager sign-off a simple declaration statement, as apposed to say completing a detailed evaluation checklist based on work samples/observations/etc.
jga,

So, for each job you have defined the required abilities, skills and knowledge then the supervisor of this person may evaluate and sign off on this person’s ability to do the job well.

Of course, the supervisor also needs to have the competence to evaluate the work of the workers who report to them. The supervisor will know who else can also do the job well just in case the job holder is not available.

And competent people still need to be supported by an effective system.

John
 

jga444

Starting to get Involved
#3
Thanks for the reply and agreed. However, I suppose the question I am asking involves the level of documentation retained. Can I sign someone off as competent (to the defined criteria), if I am satisfied with their performance through x years work history and forgo a specific competency evaluation for records.
 
#4
Thanks for the reply and agreed. However, I suppose the question I am asking involves the level of documentation retained. Can I sign someone off as competent (to the defined criteria), if I am satisfied with their performance through x years work history and forgo a specific competency evaluation for records.
You can whatever you want according to the procedure or methodology that works for you as long as the minimum requirements of 9K are met.
 

piningg

Involved In Discussions
#5
I believed it depends on the Job of the person.
If the person is performing hi risk job ( electrician) - person must have competency and license in performing this task.
Risk must be assess - imho
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#6
If the supervisor/manager is attesting that the person has been performing as expected for x period, fine. Certifications and training courses can also work for fields in which they apply, though competency is a level of capability that is expected to be assessed internally in some way. To be clear though, licenses and professional certifications usually require testing and/or continuing education and/or experience, so that factors in to the organization's methods.

As Randy said, the organization has a great deal of freedom to define its own methods. Auditors seek to verify the organization has done so, and is following the methods.
 
#7
I believed it depends on the Job of the person.
If the person is performing hi risk job ( electrician) - person must have competency and license in performing this task.
Risk must be assess - imho
Who told you that fairy tale about a license?
 

John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#8
Thanks for the reply and agreed. However, I suppose the question I am asking involves the level of documentation retained. Can I sign someone off as competent (to the defined criteria), if I am satisfied with their performance through x years work history and forgo a specific competency evaluation for records.
jga,

Grandfathering is okay but may cause you to overlook incompetence due to loss of necessary acuity.

So, your decision is risk-based considering criticality of the task and health of the operator.

John
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
What may be required to document competency if based on previous work history.

For example, a position has a job description defining the key responsibilities and core competencies. An employee has performed this job for several years and his/her manager is intimately familiar with their quality and work history. Can the manager sign-off a simple declaration statement, as apposed to say completing a detailed evaluation checklist based on work samples/observations/etc.
Does previous work history actually show competency? I don't think so... In fact, I'll disagree with John that "grandfathering" isn't "OK" it's very risky.

Competency is defined as "the demonstrated ability..." What is being found by management when they actually ask their 30+ years experienced people is that they are NOT competent with certain tasks. I'd suggest that doing demonstration of skills and knowledge is going to highlight a train wreck BEFORE it happens...
 

jga444

Starting to get Involved
#10
Awesome answer, that what I was looking for. Yes, on critical jobs and/or where safety is a concerns, I think periodic training/evaluations are necessary.
 

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