ISO 9001:2015 8.2.3.2 and 8.5.5 - Guidance for Reviews

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#1
Hi everybody.

When auditing internally the sales process, I wonder at what extent do we have to require
evidences of reviews, the standards states:

8.2.3 Review of the requirements for products and services
several sub clauses not mentioned, finally...
8.2.3.2 The organization shall retain documented information, as applicable:
a) on the results of the review;
b) on any new requirements for the products and services.

in 8.2.3.2 says Applicable, what do we have to expect as evidences of this review?
If nothing is shown as evidence of review , is it a NC?

The review could be a checklist of items reviewed or is it enough a Simple quotation saying that within the quotation the review was done?

Other point in 8.5.5
8.5.5 Post-delivery activities

c) the nature, use and intended lifetime of its products and services;

If in the quotation to customers, the sales people, don´t mention the warranty , they don´t give details of the product
sold, just type color, quantity, and price , nothing regarding duration, or special post service, etc.
Does it deserve to raise a NC?

Please give your opinion.
Thanks
 
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
qualprod,

Is the selling process resulting in promises that cannot be kept by the organization?

Is the selling process designed and run to sell bespoke services and products or standard items?

Do the customers review their order before placing their order? If online IT may have a record of this.

Kindly advise so we can see what sort of evidence of contract review would be applicable.

After all you would not want your colleagues to keep unnecessary records.

Thanks,

John
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#3
qualprod,

Is the selling process resulting in promises that cannot be kept by the organization?

Is the selling process designed and run to sell bespoke services and products or standard items?

Do the customers review their order before placing their order? If online IT may have a record of this.

Kindly advise so we can see what sort of evidence of contract review would be applicable.

After all you would not want your colleagues to keep unnecessary records.

Thanks,

John
Thanks John
1-Really is not a problem, most of the time customer is happy with products (quality and OTD)
2-Normally what is manufactured are standard products, nothing is tailored .
3-The quotation is sent to customer by email, I dont know the activities of customer (as to keep record of that),
The review is very simple and is done by the same person, (same person creates and reviews the quotation)
only when the Order is high cost (1000 US and up) is reviewed by the top manager.

Really don´t want to have lot of records, but …….

8.2.3.2 The organization shall retain documented information, as applicable:

The standard states "shall" although also mentions " as applicable"

Please feed me back, thanks
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Thanks John
1-Really is not a problem, most of the time customer is happy with products (quality and OTD)
2-Normally what is manufactured are standard products, nothing is tailored .
3-The quotation is sent to customer by email, I dont know the activities of customer (as to keep record of that),
The review is very simple and is done by the same person, (same person creates and reviews the quotation)
only when the Order is high cost (1000 US and up) is reviewed by the top manager.

Really don´t want to have lot of records, but …….

8.2.3.2 The organization shall retain documented information, as applicable:

The standard states "shall" although also mentions " as applicable"

Please feed me back, thanks
Thanks.

For a standard range of products your quotations are determined by your catalog/database so focus on how the entries to these tools and their updates were/are verified.

Often these tools are mistake-proofed during their design thereby making further checks by users unnecessary.

Your customer is then reviewing your quotation before placing their order.

You also have a RM approach before accepting high value orders.

Being as your sales process is not resulting in orders you cannot fulfill I would say that the applicable records are being kept.

The standard specifies “as applicable” so the organization (you) can limit the extent of the record keeping to what is necessary.

I see no reason for you to worry about this.

John
 

skb76

Involved In Discussions
#5
all,

once again (cite from 'somewhere') ..

8.2.3.2 The organization shall retain documented information, as applicable:
a) on the results of the review;
b) on any new requirements for the products and services.


in regard of 8.2.3.2
the audit question will be:

-(the review shall be conducted prior to the organization's commitment to supply product/service to the customer and shall ensure contract or order requirement differing from those previously defined are solved)
~show me that the review is conducted prior to your commitment to supply product/service to your customer. How do you resolve contract or order requirement which differ from those previously defined?)

-(where the customer does not provide a documented statement of their requirement, the customer requirement shall be confirmed by the organization before acceptance)
~how do you confirm customer requirement where customer x provide documented information)

-(Documented information describing the results of the review, including any new/change requirement for product/service shall be retained)
~show me where you retain documented information which describes results of the review including any new/changed requirement

~(where requirement for product/service are changed, the org shall ensure that relevant documented information is amended and relevant personnel are made aware of the change requirement)
~show me documented information containing changes to product/service.How do ensure that relevant personnel are made of the changes

#i guess above guide should answering your concern...

in regard of 8.5.5c ~c) the nature, use and intended lifetime of its products and services;
~personal opinion
i guess don't thick it too complicated;
~as long the product COMPLY with local law/regulation ..
+
~like 'smartphone'+'led/lcd' tv ; x written law apply (SALESPERSON) to tell us SCREEN X UNDER (if broke by owner itself) warranty
only cover hardware/software... (hope you catch what i mean..)

any others comments...

thanks in advance..
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Hi everybody.

When auditing internally the sales process, I wonder at what extent do we have to require
evidences of reviews, the standards states:

8.2.3 Review of the requirements for products and services
several sub clauses not mentioned, finally...
8.2.3.2 The organization shall retain documented information, as applicable:
a) on the results of the review;
b) on any new requirements for the products and services.

in 8.2.3.2 says Applicable, what do we have to expect as evidences of this review?
If nothing is shown as evidence of review , is it a NC?

The review could be a checklist of items reviewed or is it enough a Simple quotation saying that within the quotation the review was done?

Other point in 8.5.5
8.5.5 Post-delivery activities

c) the nature, use and intended lifetime of its products and services;

If in the quotation to customers, the sales people, don´t mention the warranty , they don´t give details of the product
sold, just type color, quantity, and price , nothing regarding duration, or special post service, etc.
Does it deserve to raise a NC?

Please give your opinion.
Thanks
Is there objective evidence, like a memo, initials of the sales person acceptance letter for the PO, on the company's intranet or something? During the Audit was this question asked, during the interview? These are things you need to look for as evidence of the review. The key word is "applicable." If I was performing this audit, and a checklist was shown, I would accept that.

Just my opinion.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#8
In some organizations, the record of the review is the acknowledgement (saying all the things the customer ordered on the PO), and/or work order where it states how the organization plans to meet all of those requirements. Those are pretty effective.

Other places use quote review checklists, or have to log, check, and verify customer T's and C's.

Remember, everything is based on your context of the organization, and the needs and expectations of you relevant interested parties.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#9
Other point in 8.5.5 8.5.5 Post-delivery activities c) the nature said:
Comments about post delivery activities.

In ISO 9001:2008 post delivery activities were mentioned with contract review (7.2). It is not mentioned with contract review in ISO 9001:2015 (8.2) probably because it is covered in greater detail in the new 8.5.5. Pay attention to the wording before the a-e list. "The organization shall meet requirements for post delivery activities . . . In determining the extent of post delivery activities that are required the organization shall consider: . . . "

So basically you don't need to worry about post delivery activities unless they arise and when they do you need to consider how to handle it from the a-e list. That includes c "the nature, use and intended lifetime of its products and services . . . "

You may be overthinking the issue.
 
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