ISO 9001:2015 Clause 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

armani

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
If an organization is part of a bigger organization and this structure dictates the resource allocation for organization, is this a subject of 7.1.1b?
The process of providing the resources by the bigger organization represents externally provided process and must be treated as in 8.4??
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
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#2
Re: 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

Yes. If the scope of the QMS does not include the larger organization, then they must be treated as an external provider.
 

armani

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

But then organization must apply "criteria for the evaluation, selection, monitoring of performance, and re-evaluation of external providers"....means evaluate etc. the larger organization?? I don't think so...that would not be applicable, how can be??
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

But then organization must apply "criteria for the evaluation, selection, monitoring of performance, and re-evaluation of external providers"....means evaluate etc. the larger organization?? I don't think so...that would not be applicable, how can be??
If you are part of the larger organization, and you are required to use them, then the selection criteria are already in place. Even if they own you, you still have the ability to evaluate them and monitor their performance. And if they don't perform as expected, shouldn't you ask for corrective actions?
 

armani

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Re: 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

If you are part of the larger organization, and you are required to use them, then the selection criteria are already in place. Even if they own you, you still have the ability to evaluate them and monitor their performance. And if they don't perform as expected, shouldn't you ask for corrective actions?
Yes, could ask....but for the sake of asking. If there is no corrective action, that is. There is nothing organization can do.
Plus ....how to apply 8.4.2 (especially d)?? It would be only for the sake of ISO, organization has no power.
 
Last edited:

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: 7.1.1.b refers to ....?

Yes, could ask....but for the sake of asking. If there is no corrective action, that is. Nothing I can do.
Plus ....how to apply 8.4.2 (especially d)?? It would be only for the sake of ISO, organizatin has no power.
I think Annex A.8 settles this question in no uncertain terms; in which an Example of Externally Provided Services includes "an arrangement with an associate company".


Also, there is a carefully written explanation - "The organization can apply risk-based thinking to determine the type and extent of controls appropriate to particular external providers and externally provided processes, products and Services."

If I were to establish 8.4.1 controls on my Parent Organization who would also be an external provider of services, my idea would be;

Evaluation – Through Top Management Review
Selection – By Top Management decision
Monitoring of performance – Guess there is definitely a feedback mechanism (no way somebody can accept insanity in the garb of Service)
Re-evaluation – Not required
 
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