ISO 9001:2015 Clause 8.4.3 "Information for External Providers" buying from online retailers.

#1
I work for a very small manufacturing facility and am working on implementing ISO 9001:2015.
In clause 8.4.3, the Standard requires:
"The organization shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:
a) the processes, products, and services provided
b) the approval of products and services, methods, processes, equipment, and the release of products and services
c) competence, including any required qualification of persons
d) the external provider's interaction with the organization
e) control and monitoring of the external provider;s performance to be applied by organization f) verification or validation activities that the organization, or its customer, intends to perform at the external provider's premises. "

We actually buy some of our parts from online retailers such as Amazon. Any suggestions how we address this requirement when there is no two-way communication with these types of suppliers?
 
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Coury Ferguson

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#2
I work for a very small manufacturing facility and am working on implementing ISO 9001:2015.
In clause 8.4.3, the Standard requires:
"The organization shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:
a) the processes, products, and services provided
b) the approval of products and services, methods, processes, equipment, and the release of products and services
c) competence, including any required qualification of persons
d) the external provider's interaction with the organization
e) control and monitoring of the external provider;s performance to be applied by organization f) verification or validation activities that the organization, or its customer, intends to perform at the external provider's premises. "

We actually buy some of our parts from online retailers such as Amazon. Any suggestions how we address this requirement when there is no two-way communication with these types of suppliers?
I am curious on what type of product you manufacture, that you would buy from retailers? Why not a part distributor? At least there you could meet paragraph 8.4.3, in my opinion.

Are these parts from the retailer considered catalog/off-the-shelf items and available from distributors instead of "Amazon?"

I am just a little curious here.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
You have to ensure the adequacy of requirements, then communicate them to the external provider. Maybe you don't have requirements for all of a-f for the type of product you're buying from Amazon - like qualified personnel or verification at the providers' premises, for example.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
D Carr,

Study the end of the introductory statement, for example, if you have no requirements for the competence (see c]) of Amazon’s staff you have no need to communicate them.

Simply by using their website to order your supplied goods you are communicating your requirements.

If your requirements exceed the scope or granularity of Amazon’s website then you’ll do business with another supplier that can meet your requirements.

Best wishes,

John
 

dubrizo

Involved In Discussions
#5
Side note: keep in mind section 8.4.2 as well, especially if you are purchasing through Amazon, but the seller is not Amazon. How are you evaluating, selecting, monitoring performance, etc.?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
I work for a very small manufacturing facility and am working on implementing ISO 9001:2015.
In clause 8.4.3, the Standard requires:
...snip....We actually buy some of our parts from online retailers such as Amazon. Any suggestions how we address this requirement when there is no two-way communication with these types of suppliers?
When John Broomfield made the statement
Study the end of the introductory statement,
I believe he meant the text of the 9001 standard that reads: "... The organization shall ensure the adequacy of requirements prior to their communication..."

Adding to the fact that you might be procuring off the shelf, commercial products, available from online retailers and the fact that risk based thinking means that we don't need to make the procurement process more cumbersome and complicated than necessary, On the other hand, from a risk management perspective, it could be unwise to procure critical items that can create serious customer satisfaction issues, from external providers without proper provenance.

That is to say, without you telling us what type of products you are involved with, we could only speculate on the adequacy of your Amazon shopping for business purposes.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
I work for a very small manufacturing facility and am working on implementing ISO 9001:2015.
In clause 8.4.3, the Standard requires:
"The organization shall communicate to external providers its requirements for:
a) the processes, products, and services provided
b) the approval of products and services, methods, processes, equipment, and the release of products and services
c) competence, including any required qualification of persons
d) the external provider's interaction with the organization
e) control and monitoring of the external provider;s performance to be applied by organization f) verification or validation activities that the organization, or its customer, intends to perform at the external provider's premises. "

We actually buy some of our parts from online retailers such as Amazon. Any suggestions how we address this requirement when there is no two-way communication with these types of suppliers?
You shall communicate with Amazon your requirements for product by proper choice of the Amazon part before proceeding to pay.
As simple as that. I believe that is what you are doing.
You know all the requirements of your part and you have compared this with Amazon offer and you are making the choice.
Here you are to ensure the adequacy of requirements prior to Amazon communication (ie. Close out) and I believe you are doing it.
 
#8
I am curious on what type of product you manufacture, that you would buy from retailers? Why not a part distributor? At least there you could meet paragraph 8.4.3, in my opinion.

Are these parts from the retailer considered catalog/off-the-shelf items and available from distributors instead of "Amazon?"

I am just a little curious here.
We manufacture electronic equipment and buy some of our components online through catalogs. Our volumes are low so buying from a distributor (in some cases) is not cost effective. The company buys items such as heat shrink and electronic components from online retailers.
 

Al Rosen

Holed-up in a Hotel in South Florida
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
We manufacture electronic equipment and buy some of our components online through catalogs. Our volumes are low so buying from a distributor (in some cases) is not cost effective. The company buys items such as heat shrink and electronic components from online retailers.
I don't know the complexity of the electronic components that you purchase from online retailers, but you have an increased risk of being supplied counterfeits. How are you addressing this?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#10
Excellent point, Al. Context of the organization and risk based thinking come at play here. One just needs to google Amazon+counterfeit to see the risk is real and numerous lawsuits exist concerning this.

Counterfeit parts is a serious threat to product conformity and safety.
 
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