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ISO 9001:2015 Clause 9.3.2 - Management Review Inputs must be Documented?

armani

Involved In Discussions
#1
Management review inputs (9.3.2) must be presented for review in a documented way?? Or just verbally is enough (but then how can organization demonstrate that inputs covers a) to f)?
 
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PaulJSmith

#2
Re: 9.3.2 must be documented??

In 9.3.3 resides a requirement to "retain documented information as evidence" of your Management reviews. The minutes of the Review, which would include the inputs, amongst other information, would surely satisfy this.
 

DRAMMAN

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: 9.3.2 must be documented??

Can it really be an effective management review process if nothing is documented?

That aside, how an auditor would verify this is by asking who participated in the Management review. Then ask each participant what was reviewed, the inputs, outputs, etc. If eveyone gives a consistent story then the process is effectively deployed. If everyone starts giving different stories or responds with..."what is management review?" Then you are likely looking at a NC.

My CB Auditor said that a good way to simply meet the requirement is to create a power point with the minimum information and email it the management team. That will allow you to avoid NC's. Is that an effective management review process....probably not.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted
#6
Management review inputs (9.3.2) must be presented for review in a documented way?? Or just verbally is enough (but then how can organization demonstrate that inputs covers a) to f)?
What do you exactly mean by Verbal inputs to Management review? Could you elaborate more? It is beyond my imagination.

On a lighter side (strictly not meant to offend), some of my wild imaginations are,
Lunch-table review; Water-cooler review; Happy-Hours review; En route-to-Airport review;:)
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#7
OK! that's what an external auditor will want. But "show me the shall" for documenting inputs...there is none.
Management Review has long been discussed. I think many people over think this. In the past some people have even interpreted the requirement to be one big meeting once a year (minimum), which is not the case.

In this discussion I do not see an issue. Management reviews have an agenda. It would be difficult to hold the meeting if a documented (written) agenda was not made and communicated to prepare people for the meeting and to guide the meeting. That agenda should list all inputs. If other inputs do come up they should be entered into the (documented) meeting minutes. Remember: Management Review Outputs are Inputs to the NEXT Management Review meeting.

As to "... show me the shall ..." - In general I would go along with that line of thought if an auditor asks for something there is no specific "shall" for. But, in this case it is the basics of having such a meeting that really require a documented agenda.

For some thought on this, read through: What should be included in Management Review Meeting for ISO 9001:2015?

That said, even though there may not be a specific "shall", I certainly would have a documented agenda and if the auditor asked for it I would happily provide it.

I think the old saying goes: "Choose your battles carefully". I wouldn't get into a pi$$ing match with an auditor over this.

Since we're on the topic, you might also want to read: Management Review Input/Outputs - Most Items Discussed in Other Meetings

I did do a Goggle search on "effective meetings" and all essentially were like this one: https://www.thebalance.com/effective-meetings-produce-results-before-the-meeting-1918729 - Every one says (and I fully agree) that a written agenda in necessary for an effective meeting.

As a last thought, a documented agenda, as well as meeting minutes and documented outputs may be important in the future such as if a legal issue arises, and in general the outputs of management review meetings are important to Continuous Improvement.

:2cents:
 

armani

Involved In Discussions
#8
Thanks Marc for these helpful sources of information.
Unfortunately, there is no satisfactory answer to my question - no doubt, it is more effective if documented inputs are used, but there is no such requirement.
So, for an external / internal (?) audit this may be an OFI but definitely not a NC.
 
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PaulJSmith

#9
No offense, armani, but if you're doing this to meet the strictest requirements of the ISO standard, then you are really missing the point of a Management Review. It's not about meeting the "shall"s of the standard. It's about meeting the expectations of a successful organization. It's the most effective method, whether the standard requires it or not.

Marc's post is dead-on.
 

DRAMMAN

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
ISO9001:2015 explicitly requires there be inputs. Section 9.3.2 is titled "Management Review Inputs". The standard does not specifically state what your inputs must be or how they are documented. It does state....
"The management review shall be planned and carried out taking into consideration:" Then it lists what to take into consideration. The list would be the minimum of what to take into consideration. You can add more input topics.

The frequency needs to be at PLANNED INTERVALS which you define. Annually is a planned interval. But my opinion is that more frequent management reviews is more effective.

Your documentation requirement for the Management review is as follows
"The organization shall retain documented information as evidence of the results of the management reviews".

So no, you do not need to document the inputs. My opinion is your Management Review process will be more effective if you document the planned intervals, the required inputs, the outputs, and the results. And your audits will surely go smoother.

Agendas, meeting schedules, management review procedures, power point presentations, reports, metrics, and action item trackers are all types of "documented information" that can be used to as objective evidence to prove you do Management Review. More than likely, we all work at companies who already have some of this, if not much more.
 
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